Was Jesus the First Republican?

beyond absurd one passage in the bible mean next to nothing.

 

if I suggested that was religious freedom I'll pay you $10,000. Bet? Do you know what a straw man is??

 

The problem is that only showed that Jesus demanded duties of man.

It does not mean the individual has freedom of religion. It means Jesus demanded an individual belief by every human, regardless of state religious requirements.

That was a DUTY, not a freedom.

For example, how did the apostle Paul die?

Was that personal freedom of religion under Rome?

Was that separation of church and state in Rome?

Obviously, not. Paul had a duty to God that he carried out and thus was executed by the state for breaking state law on religion.

 

You suggested there was freedom of religion and/or a split between religion and state that came as a result of something Jesus said or did.

I'm pointing out that is NOT the case.

Such freedom or split did not exist at that time (as evidenced by Paul's execution).

And, there was no such split in the American colonies as evidenced by the colonies where taxes were collected by the dominant religion - demonstrating that the religious order WAS the government.

The religious governments of those colonies lost that power only when our constitution became the law.

 

Yet, you hang your whole argument on one passage - in fact, a passage over which there is significant dispute among Christian theologians about its meaning.

And, my points are not supported just by the bible, but also by the history of western government up through the founding of America.

 

one passage??? All of the Western Roman Empire was torn between Church and state from Jesus forward!!! OMG!!!!

 

what points?? You always forget what subject you are one a raise numerous points as strawmen

 

so there was no split and conflict between church and state in the west??? Pope and State got along fine??

 

OK, now I don't know what you're talking about.

Clearly, the religion changed as Christianity took over.

But, that didn't bring freedom of religion and it did not bing separation of church and state.

I don't see evidence that Christianity advocated for religious freedom or advocated for religion to be separated from government is ridiculous.

The Spanish Inquisition wasn't about religious freedom.

The Papal States weren't about religious freedom or separation of church and state.

the US colonies which were governed by the church weren't interested in religious freedom - just the freedom to be exclusively their own version of religion.

 

I've pointed to historic events as well as the bible.

I've raised zero straw men.

 

There was no pope who wanted a split between church and state.

Your claim was that this came from religion.

I'm saying it is and always has been a secular movement.

We even see that fight today, as members of the US Christian community advocate for teaching Christianity as the one true faith in public schools - even going so far as wanting to teach Christianity in science class!

 

Can't be a Republican if you don't vote.

 

talking about natural tension and conflict between church and state in West that ultimately led to Locke and Jefferson.

 

you mean because the Pope's wanted to run the State's too?

 

yes the Christian religion challenged the state as do modern Republicans

 

Good - you at least recognize that this issue was not resolved up to Jefferson's time.

So, you KNOW that religion (specifically Christianity) was NOT interested in separation of church and state throughout history up to that time.

And, TODAY we still have Christianity working to have power of government over education, public accommodation, employment, housing, political organization, taxes and other cases.

We are STILL fighting the battle of separation of church and state, and it is because Christianity does NOT accept that split.

 

EVERYBODY challenges the government.

You can't possibly argue that your post is even on topic.

 

If I ever said it was resolved I will pay you $10,000. Bet or run away as usual?

 

our subject is not what they were interested in but rather whether there was a dynamic intellectual tension between church and state that boosted the west toward the Enlightenment Locke and Jefferson. Now do you understand?

 

In my opinion, Jesus had nothing to do with politics. He wasn't a democrat or a republican. He was an example of the goodness and kindness we should display towards others, and I've seen this generosity come from those on the left and the right.

 

all agree, so????????????

 

so?? our subject is whether the intellectual battle between church and state led to America's Republican founding. Now do you understand?

 

You're seriously confused.

You AGREED with me!

And, I've responded to EVER post of yours.

 

Like the Dominionists..

 

Jesus challenged the Roman Empire and then largely took it and Western Civilization over through Constantine . That was most significant challenge by far. Now do you understand?