Was killing Baghdadi a betrayal ?

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Giftedone, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was a convoluted mess - One of the bigger groups (that were not Al Qaeda). One of the groups you mentioned was part of this unholy union of radical Islamist Jihadists.

    The bottom line here is that it does not matter what these groups call themselves "Al Qaeda - Martyrs for Allah" whatever. They all were radical Islamist's engaged in a holy war to turn Syria into a dark age Strict Sharia nightmare - and they did exactly that - taking over most of Syria in the first 2 years of the war.
     
  2. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    US working with Sunni jihadists to fight Iran in Syria is yesterday's news. Assad's only crime as far as the US (and Israel and Saudi Arabia) were concerned, was his unwillingness to cut his ties as part of the axis of resistance. Before Syria was plunged into its civil war and the 'Assad must go' mantra, all sorts of intermediaries were used to convince him to sever his ties with Iran and even in the early days of the civil war, Assad was told by the Saudis that if he did sever those ties, they would stop funding and fueling the rebellion against him.

    Today's news which most of you aren't following is a US/Saudi/UAE project to create a "Shia Jihadist" movement in Iraq, to oust Iran's influence in that country. There is this firebrand cleric which is from a very different Shia sect, a very extremist and deranged personality, who is being propelled into taking the leadership of protests in Iraq against living conditions, corruption and other mundane issues and to turn it into an anti-Iran movement.

    If this project succeeds, we will now have another Al Baghdadi character emerge, except this time helping associate the "Shia" with similar atrocities.

    https://iranian.com/2019/11/04/iraq-arrests-uae-spy-cell-amid-protests/
    Iraq Arrests UAE Spy Cell Amid Protests
     
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  3. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    They're all Al Qaeda, as far as I'm concerned. Making distinctions between this and that Salafist group is basically splitting hairs. They all agree on the same fundamental beliefs and practices. They only disagree with regards to minutia which is utterly irrelevant from the perspective of a westerner. I don't really care if one group thinks there will be 71 virgins after they blow themselves up versus another group that thinks there will be 72 virgins. They are all proxies of the Gulf State dictatorships, especially Saudi Arabia, who subscribe to the most regressive and barbaric version of Islam in existence. So despite whatever trivial ideological differences they possess, they are all united in their hatred for western values and culture.
     
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the gist of what you wrote, but I want to be clear: I favor Iran having its own culture evolve based on its own heritage, learning from those around it, but not having to look and act and be just like the West. Western culture and civilization has much to its credit and I am a product of it in many ways. But while I reject hating or being at war with any culture (whether war against Western culture or Islamic culture or any other), I am not someone who favors forcing others to live up what is acceptable to the West. In Iran's case specifically, we have a profound cultural heritage to build on. That doesn't mean being insulated and refusing to adopt better values or customs elsewhere, but it does mean that we need to reach our own consensus on what is good or bad and not follow someone else's consensus on that issue. Any attempt to prevent the natural evolution of a society discovering its own truths on these issues, whether by its own leaders (as is sometimes the case in Iran) or by outsiders, is something I reject.
     
  5. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    You are assuming again.
     
  6. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    Really well said and reasoned. I will definitely check out the film. Any others you can recommend, please them coming; books as well on Iran, and related topics.
     
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  7. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I will do so shortly, but I have to go out for now. Will be back in a few hours to give you some of the best Iranian movies which have been released recently, two of which were released this year and were excellent. Really good. The best movies produced anywhere that I have seen this year.
    p.s.
    The movie I posted (Damascus time) is pretty good, but there was a technical problem I noticed in the English subtitled version posted on that site which I posted: the audio begins to trail the picture by a few seconds after the first 5 minutes or. It shouldn't be a huge problem as the Farsi audio isn't really something an English speaker would be following, but I would have preferred a version without that problem but couldn't find it. Still, I recommend watching the movie as it is pretty good.
     
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  8. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    Thank-you.
    I look forward to many more fruitful discussions with you.
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly - The purpose of the Radical Islamist Proxy army was to turn Syria into an Orwellian Strict Sharia Nightmare - and this is something we should be against.
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not assuming anything. The idea that Obama was not aware of the Defense Intelligence Agencies "intelligence" is preposterous nonsense on steroids.

    Further - the Director of the DIA - stated directly that the Administration knew - and "willfully" ignored this fact.
    Further - Near every journalist covering the situation on the ground at the time was reporting the same thing .. that the Radical Islamist Jihadists had taken over.

    Biden knew -
    https://mideastshuffle.com/2014/10/04/biden-turks-saudis-uae-funded-and-armed-al-nusra-and-al-qaeda/
     
  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I checked again and the audio problem I had noticed earlier in the movie "Damascus Time" is either fixed or maybe the problem was with my internet connection. In any case, I would really like people to watch the movie, both because it is an entertaining enough movie (has won some international awards as well), but also because it will give a better "feel" for ISIS, Syria and about Iran than what you may find from other sources. The movie is shot in Syria and there is a lot of pretty interesting scenes in the movie.

    The best Iranian movie this year, which is excellent, is the following. (It has not come out for international audiences yet, so I couldn't find one with English subtitles).

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9817070/
    Just 6.5 (2019)
    Metri Shesh Va Nim (original title)
    2h 11min | Crime, Drama, Thriller | 17 March 2019 (Iran)

    The next best one is this one:

    This one has come out for international audiences and you might be able to find it somewhere in English. It has been reviewed favorably by critics in the US as well:
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/no_date_no_signature
    https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/no-date-no-signature-2018
    https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...-date-no-signature-review-20180809-story.html


    Both deal in part with the issues faced by Iran's 'underclass'. The first one about drug trafficking and the other one a working class poor family. They are both very powerful movies with excellent acting.
     
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  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Why would they bother with Syria?

    Why would anyone bother with Syria?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  13. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Slightly different context, and with different variable involved, but for much of the same reasons, as why the US and many other countries joined Saudi Arabia's (by now clearly ill fated and misguided) war in Yemen.

    Or are you also denying that Saudi Arabia has been waging war against the Houthis in Yemen!
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good question - Why they wanted to arm a Radical Islamist Proxy army - to destabilize Syria - will be hopefully answered over the course of time.
     
  15. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Saudis have been trying to keep the houthis out of Arabia.
     
  16. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    To keep the bab al mandab and stratiats of Hormuz open.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  17. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    If you listen to the Saudis themselves, instead of saying things for them, they are supposedly "fighting Iran" in Yemen! That was the primary justification they offered for waging war on the Houthis. (The Houthis were not an Iranian 'proxy', but the Saudi war has actually driven the Houthis more under Iran's influence than ever before). That was also the reason the Saudis were involved in trying to unseat Assad. They have never been shy about saying so, which makes it even more curious why you are denying this fact.
     
  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Russians and Iranians can rebuilt Syria and he next time Assad starts slaughter his people they can deal
    with it.

    As for the Houthis.. KSA needs to keep them on the Yemen side of the border.
     
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Although Iran's ability to help Assad is somewhat constrained by both the sanctions on Iran as well as by Russia's attempts to limit Iran's commercial ties with Syria (Iran remains Syria's biggest trading partner nonetheless), we are doing our part. Just a few days ago, for instance, this was one of the headlines about Iran and Syria:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...al-to-rebuild-syrian-power-grid-idUSKBN1XC07G
    Iran strikes initial deal to rebuild Syrian power grid
     
  20. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Good..its a start.
     
  21. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    I will watch, and thank you :)
     
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  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of US support for radial Sunni Jihadists, I noticed this elsewhere. Haven't bothered to really look into the tweet and information it presents, as I find the issue clear enough already.

    https://twitter.com/JasonLeopold/status/1192550592905957376

    Jason Leopold‏Verified account @JasonLeopold
    HUGE #FOIA WIN for me against CIA GLOMAR! Years ago, I filed a #FOIA request with CIA for docs CIA had on payments/arming Syrian rebels. After Trump tweeted in 2017 he ended the program I sued CIA. District court just struck down CIA GLOMAR & agency must provide me with docs
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your blind partisan perspective of anything related to El Saud is so overwhelming that you will spew out mindless absurdities at random as soon as the subject comes up.

    What about the Houthi's keeping the KSA on their side of the border ? Can you provide us with examples of the Houthi's engaging in actions in the KSA - prior to the KSA making war on the Houthis in Yemen ?
     
  24. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    5+ Years would put it in Obama's lap.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That it would ..and the Pentagon's Lap - and the Lap of Red and Blue Congress .. and so on. This was a big operation.
     

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