Was Trump our worst president?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Robert, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The issue is not with a couple of climbers, since that photo shows nothing of what our law enforcement did about it, it is with tens of thousands flooding this country and Joe Biden sent them invitations.
     
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  2. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  3. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obama is a prime example of that. He is smooth talking and good looking and he tells you just what you want to hear. But I swear, through most everything he did, he screwed up. His economy sucked. His fighting ISIS sucked. It was so bad millions of Muslims fled to Europe and America for their lives and Europe and America will never be the same again. Even his health care program didn't turn out anything like he thought it would and costing billions just to keep it going. Yet for millions, Obama was one of the best ten Presidents we ever had and Trump who had one of the best economies ever and finished off ISIS from being a standing Army, fixing the VA, our military, helping single mothers with child care and helping start a new job training program for the unskilled, a new program for the incarcerated, to give them a new lease on life, near record approval of new generic medicine to help control cost, got an American company to make vital medical ingredients here so we aren't held hostage to foreign companies threatening to cut them off if we don't do their bidding, etc.etc. is considered one of the worst Presidents we ever had. All because he doesn't come across like a President should. He has done more in four years to help America than Bush and Obama did in 16 years.
     
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  4. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have been doing things to stop it. We have been building factories in Central and South America to give these people jobs to help improve their lives. Billions have been giving their country to do the same thing.
     
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  5. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Many of these photos are before Biden’s inauguration but ok
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So it seems to me as if you approve Biden's border jumpers. Why not Trumps? Per your claims the 2 climbing the fence were under Trump.
     
  7. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And more, he rushed to America the same vaccines that Democrats preach to us about daily.
     
  8. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please direct quote me, if you know how, where I have approved of “Biden‘s border jumpers”.
     
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  9. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    X
    Well stated.
     
  10. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    What does that say about the people that admire that? Not too much, IMO. When a person can skirt by on physical attractive and charm, it's time to re-evaluate our own values.
     
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  11. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Then there's this historic first:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is NOT what dairyair said but, rather, that both major political parties played a part. It is noteworthy that you can only view any comment saying less than, "it's ALL the Democrats' fault," as actually saying that Democrats had nothing to do with it, and all blame lies with Republicans. I can only assume this is because you have pre-absolved Republicans from any culpability whatsoever, in all present & future cases, so that the Democratic Party is the only one left, to shoulder full blame.


    To take another huge misstep of our political leaders, as an example: let us look at the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. This led directly to the collapse of the U.S. real estate market and a crisis in financial markets, which were behind our recent, extended, "Great Recession." It is notable that it was this, that had a greater negative impact than even all of our country's indebtedness, from the fortune that G.W. Bush squandered in the Middle East. And I hold it as a permanent negative mark against Clinton for signing it. But it was OVERWHELMINGLY passed by both chambers of Congress, so that Clinton's veto would have been meaningless. Still, I fault Clinton for not getting on his bully pulpit and trying to stir up popular support against this, to pressure Congress to back down-- though I have no reason to think Clinton was even against this move.

    The point is, regardless of the President, in this matter, this was almost certainly a done deal, because of a near complete absence of dissent in Congress, by both Parties (and I believe Republicans were in the majority; there were more no-votes from Democrats, but only a paltry few). So it was the fault of POLITICIANS, and our political system's allowing of lobbyists, for the financial industry, to wield such great influence; but if you can only see it as a partisan shortcoming of one Party, you will always be in the dark as to the true state of affairs (which, no doubt, is a willing ignorance that Republican politicians would commend, in their supporters).
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
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  13. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    I voted, & volunteered, for Perot, as well. Unfortunately, too much of the public has identified with their political Party, making effective these games of "blame the other guys," when, in truth, the politicians were more concerned with their own interests, than the country's. After Perot, I supported Nader in several presidential elections.

    I think there has generally been some improvement in this self-serving area, lately, by Democrats, but that is, at least in part, out of necessity, because of the great worsening of Republican Congressmen, in that regard. So, ironically, partisanship is now a hard thing to avoid (though I am still open to lauding individual Republicans, & blaming Democratic politicians, when the situations warrant).
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
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  14. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    IF Trump Isn't the Worst Ever, he is certainly in a group with the Bottom 3 of James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.

    Of the 45 Men who have held the Office
    Trump at best is #43 and arguably the Worst Ever at #45.
     
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  15. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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  16. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Glass Steagal act was not holding our loan market for homes together. And when Clinton got rid of it, it did not cause the collapse. Lobbyists perform a valuable function for Government.

    Have you ever actually asked a Congress person why they listen to Lobbyists? If you talk to Congress, they will tell you that they see lobbyists as a valuable resource. Also you do not see Congress working to eliminate lobbyists. Why then are you against lobbyists?
     
  17. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then you should become an expert on presidents. Sadly you show you are not.
     
  18. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your admitted record is that of voting for losers.

    A pal of mine that voted for Perot was warned by me he would be helping Clinton. And that is what it did. Clinton eliminated Glass Steagal yet no Democrats blasts Clinton out of his perch over it.
     
  19. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Go ahead and try for your own edification. See if he will blast Clinton over Glass Steagal or if he as you did make excuses for Bill Clinton. So put Dairyair to the test on Clinton.
     
  20. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is up to you to correct the record.
     
  21. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The record that you just made up?
    Hard pass

    Do you actually believe this is an effective debate strategy? Or one that has any integrity?

    How sad
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
  22. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Well, actually:

    Only 44 Men held the office before Biden.
    So, scholarly articles have yet to consider Biden.

    Thus, Trump would rate somewhere between #42 and #44.

    Although, in Trump's Defense (and, in the interest of Full Disclosure) there is one outlet that ranked Trump as high as #41 (only the 4TH Worst).
    In this case Trump TIED for the 3RD Worst Position with Pierce.
    (But, he was given the benefit of the doubt and placed at #41 and Pierce at #42).

    DONALD J. TRUMP

    Total Score 312

    Overall Rank 41


    https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall
     
  23. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As a rule, the left can't meme.
     
  24. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are really all over the map, with your answers, and show either a total lack of appreciation of the subject matter, or a totally disingenuous approach to it. To be specific, I acknowledged the known fact that the repeal of Glass Steagall was what allowed Banks to gamble in investments with depositors' money. You apparently do not know this, because you do NOT fault the repeal of Glass Steagall--
    -- and yet you now claim that dairyair must, "blast," Clinton for something you say was not a factor in our Great Recession. So which one was it? If Clinton did nothing wrong, why should dairyair blast him? I personally believe @dairyair will fault this as a mistake by Clinton. The odd thing is that YOU won't. But that is so you can defend lobbyists.
    There is no problem with, "lobbyists," providing INFORMATION to Congressmen who find that useful; the problem is their being a, "resource," for personal, financial incentives, for members of Congress to vote a particular way.

    Lastly, I will note that you have just PROVED the accuracy of my first post:

    DEFinning said:
    That is NOT what dairyair said but, rather, that both major political parties played a part. It is noteworthy that you can only view any comment saying less than, "it's ALL the Democrats' fault," as actually saying that Democrats had nothing to do with it, and all blame lies with Republicans. I can only assume this is because you have pre-absolved Republicans from any culpability whatsoever, in all present & future cases, so that the Democratic Party is the only one left, to shoulder full blame.
    <End Snip>

    I did not, "make excuses," for Clinton, as you now allege: I literally called his signing the repeal, "a permanent negative mark against Clinton." I only pointed out the fact, in order to show what dairyair had been trying to point out-- that BOTH PARTIES can be involved with bad policy choices-- that something like 97 Senators voted for the bill, and a similar proportion, in the House, so that a Presidential veto would not have stopped this from happening. This was not part of Clinton's agenda, which he proposed to Congress; it was Congress, who brought this to his desk, with a veto-proof majority vote: a majority that included REPUBLICANS equally, as it did, Democrats.

    I had even added that I still felt that (for me to have a good impression of Clinton, on this matter) Clinton should have got on his bully-pulpit, to stir up people in opposition to the bill, prior to its passage, in the hopes that their pressure might have stopped the legislation. But, I noted, I had no reason to believe that Clinton was not in favor of this bill, along with most of the Democrats, and nearly all the Republicans, in Congress. That was my example of SHARED BLAME. Yet, you claim it is my, "mak(ing) excuses for Bill Clinton," by my pointing out that FULL responsibility could not be put on him, simply for signing what was already a fait accompli. Thereby, you now prove my theory, above: that you refuse to attribute blame for anything to Republicans, leaving Democrats as the only option, in your warped perception, for 100% responsibility; that is why you see my or dairyair's giving only 50% of the blame to Democrats, as our making excuses for them.

    This "argument," of yours is logically incoherent, so can be addressed by no sensible response, other than that which I gave; that is, calling out your own defective excuse for, "reasoning."
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
  25. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Lol-- you think it is some credit to you, to have voted for the person who wins the election, then drags us into an unnecessary, decades-long war? The people I voted for, who you refer to as "losers," would NOT have allowed the investment industry to wreck our economy & real estate market (as the repeal of Glass Steagall laid the foundation for), or involved us in a sham war, to disarm a country of its, "weapons of mass destruction." Since you DO have many COMPLAINTS about our government, how can not even your own modest comprehension recognize that the, "winners," have not always been the best choices, or done a good job? Hence, how is it a discredit to me, to have voted for the better candidates, albeit ones that were not as popular as the "winners?" You act as if you think that having voted for the President in office, means that you have, "won," something-- except, of course, when that winner is a Democrat, right?

    I'm sure your, "losing," votes-- as for Trump, who you apparently think is far, far superior to Biden-- you do not rate as poor choices, on your part. Am I wrong about this? Once more, your comments show only a lack of reasoning ability, and/or a lack of sincerity, in your hypocritical arguments.
     
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