We are officially a plutocracy

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by redeemer216, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    America's richest 400 families now pay a lower tax rate than the middle class

    It is now official that the wealthiest in the US actually pay lower taxes than the middle class. Absolutely mind boggling that the right is ok with this.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/americ...s-pay-a-lower-tax-rate-than-the-middle-class/

    "The 400 richest U.S. families now pay a lower overall tax rate than the middle-class, the first time that's happened in 100 years, according to economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman."
     
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  2. nra37922

    nra37922 Banned

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    And God bless them.
     
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  3. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    You bow to the rich

    I'll pass
     
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  4. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    For being rich or for paying less into the society than everyone else?
     
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  5. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

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    I've been saying it for years. The only fair tax system is a flat tax. Every U.S. citizen 18 years of age or older pays the exact same. Whether you're working or not, disabled or not, incarcerated or not. Now that is tax equality. For the approximate 260 million Americans 18 and over the required tax burden would be right around $12,500 per year. I mean everybody uses the same roads, we have the same USDA making sure our food is free from contamination, we have the same FDA making sure our flu shots are up to date, we have the same Transportation Safety Board making sure our air travel is safe and we all have the same military making sure that our freedoms are protected. Yet while a very few people pay millions of dollars for those services most others pay absolutely nothing.

    The richest 1% pays about 25% of all U.S. income tax. The richest 20% pays about 80% of all income tax and 47% of working Americans don't even pay one penny of income tax. Now, that's just income tax. Want to take a guess what the rich pay in capital gains tax? Estate tax? Luxury tax? Property tax? Sales tax?

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    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  6. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    So when exactly was America great?

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  7. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

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    I'll give it to you all in very simple language using this graph.
    image.jpg
    Approximately 150 million individuals file income tax returns each year.

    150,000 Americans pay $800 billion in taxes

    92,000,000 Americans pay $216 billion in taxes

    So in relation 1 wealthy person pays the same tax as 2270 people. Fair?
     
  8. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Great idea.
    Now, make it so only fed income tax is the only tax people have to pay.
    No sales tax. State tax. Property tax. Etc.
    Then it can be based just on a flat tax being equal.
     
  9. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    you seem to think fed income tax is the only tax the country has.
     
  10. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

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    Then how would states, especially California be able to afford the upkeep of their beautiful landscaping.
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  11. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

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    I guess you overlooked my very 1st post in this thread.
     
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  12. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @redeemer216 @SEAL Team V The only thing that thread prove to me is that the middle class and especially the upper middle class is the breathing heart of a nation, especially in a democracy.
    It's often the part the most forgotten in policies, as most policies either tend to favour the richest or the poorest. I'm not against pro poor people policies, but there is a thin line between "helping the poor" and "assisting them".
     
  13. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

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    image.jpg

    I wouldn't call spending $1.327 trillion a year thin. That's a fat chunk of our budgets. Welfare spending jumped 53% during the Obama Administration with the majority occurring after 2012 during America's economic recovery. I think we enable the poor more than help them.
     
  14. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Harsh to says. Another problem is that the action of the government in 2008 prevented the economy to purge itself from sick elements.In 2008 there were a heavy crisis and the governments saved sick elements that should have perished. A part of the richness of rich people today is somehow unjustificated.
    You can't have the advantage of being extremly rich without the disadvantages, but it's what happened.

    I tend to think that it's a necessity there is rich and poor, however, when rich people start to not face the difficulties of their bad choices it's a problem. Rich people tend to keep their profits for themselves, but whenever they screw up, they call up to the big daddy state to help them because there is jobs in danger.
    To be realist, the 2008 decisions helped on the short term as much poor than rich people, as not saving the banks would have horrible short consequences for everybody.

    Personnaly, I tend to think that a government should always favor the working class, not the people living from the public assistance or the one living from stockholds.
     
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  15. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    That depends on how you quantify their paying less and taxes is not the entire story. Wealth doesn't spontaneously occur like magic, it requires hard work by those who acquire it. Eventually they amass enough wealth to hire others to work for them building more wealth and in the process enriching the workers. Without this system there would be no middle class only the rich and everyone else would live in poverty reduced to groveling for crumbs. That is always the result of the fairytale of Socialism it always destroys prosperity. It starts with deliberate opinion engineering maligning the wealthy, creating a boogeyman.This happens by creating class envy and from there it snowballs exponentially causing division and infects the weak minds of a population who willingly step up to demand the destruction of a heretofore thriving nation and a legitimate government. It is far from a perfect system and rife with evil people like Mark Zuckerberg, George Soros et al who agitate for global governance which is far worse than even Communism. The sin of capitalism is it creates megalomaniacs like the aforementioned but on a much larger scale more benevolent and the engine that drives the world. There are only two choices here, capitalism or feudalism.
     
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  16. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    I would love to know where the hell they got those numbers, because frankly I think they are full of crap.
     
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Vote in people who will redo the tax laws to your liking. Lobby your representative. This is supposed to be a government of, by and for the people, right?
     
  18. nra37922

    nra37922 Banned

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    Bow NOTHING, I am glad that there are folks who have lots and LOTS of money. Matter of fact, my son is on that path and GOD BLESS HIM. He got a good education and a worthwhile degree and is working hard for what he is achieving. So for you boo hooing 'Screw the rich' aholes let me say that you should go @ yourselves...
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  19. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Since you know there are other taxes beside fed income tax.
    Then you shoule also be aware that a 5% sales tax on goods takes a larger chunk of the lower incomes, income.
    That is the main reason for a progressive tax at the fed level. To even out the overall amount of taxes any person has to pay.

    Someone posted a chart of income level vs tax paid. The lower incomes level has been steady for decades.
    While the upper incomes have been decreasing for decades. And over the decades, our debts and deficits have been increasing.
    It's not because the lower incomes have been paying less.
     
  20. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Effective tax rates by income
    0%10%20%30%40%50%60%70%19501955196019651970197519801985199019952000200520102015Top 400196451.681Top 400196451.681
    Top 400
    Bottom 90%
    Bottom 50%
    Rates include federal, state, local, sales, estate, corporate and property taxes
    Source: Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman

    https://www.nber.org/papers/w20625
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    As I thought full of crap. Way too many apples and oranges.
     
  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    So, you are confused?
    Or didn't realize all the taxes each person could be paying into?
     
  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Not confused at all. I just happen to recognize intrinsically when someone is attempting lie with Numbers.
     
  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Without showing how they lied with the numbers?
    That is an unsupported opinion, not providing proof.
     
  25. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Dude about half of what they've listed are unascertainable and can only be guessed at, and doesn't include thing like the eitc.
     

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