We don't know

Discussion in 'Science' started by bricklayer, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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  2. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Donor

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    The computer models cannot even predict climate in the past, and it certainly hasn't been able to do it in the future for the last twenty years. If the models worked, they should be able to tell us what the climate was in the past. In fact, it should be easier because we have more complete data about the past then the future. The whole thing is wrong. It ACGCC will go down in the annuls of history with miasma and bewitching.
     
  3. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Are you allowed to pour poison or radioactive materials all over the city?

    If not, this must be allowed if we are to be free!!!!

    Oh wait, by your philosophy, as long as you don't know that poison and radioactive materials kill people, it's okay, As long as you say it isn't true, it's legal! Right?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  4. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    There were a number of scientists who felt the atom could never be harnessed, never be split. They said such was beyond the power of mere mortals and was the domain of God. That humans couldn't have that much control...

    I'm sure that rationale was tremendous comfort to the mothers holding their children in Hiroshima as the Bomb dropped on the front yard.

    Science doesn't care if you believe in it or not. It is what it is.
     
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  5. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I don’t under estimate. The doubters have a huge advantage. That’s why many still believe in the grassy knoll . All that needs be done is sow just a small element of doubt while the truth takes mountains of evidence.


    I’m a simple guy. I leave the evidence gathering to those who’s job it is. I’m overwhelmed when all the universities in the world , our entire military, every major corporation in the world and every country position in the world are all in agreement of AGW.

    I would much rather be laughed at by the “ignorant masses” as you have called them for me believing in AGW then laughed at by the much larger group enlightened masses for not.
    Please, anyone, tell me one university, country other then Trumpland, or one major corporation, who sides with the “ignorant masses.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  6. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I think what used to be called, “ignorance is bliss,” is now called, ignorance is “ right.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  7. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Science cannot say what the weather was like at any point in time in the past with any certitude because weather is a daily occurrence , but they can easily look at fossil remains and other evidence, and tell what the overall climate was over one larger general period. Of late, each decade has set new records for warmth in the world’s average temps since record keeping started. With evidence, we can easily generalize the climate during each period for thousands of years back. So, we have accurate ideas of what is happening.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  8. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    The degree to which people live in fantasy land is shocking and horrifying. An old friend of mine has been getting sucked into the right-wing hyperbole to such an extent that he is now completely irrational at times. He is becoming incapable accepting any information he doesn't like. I can debate something with him and prove I'm right. But in a week, it's like it never happened and he's making the same bogus arguments. And he bounces from one irrational objection to the next, with no time for thought. At times it even sounds rehearsed - like he's committed every dodge and equivocation to memory and reacts on impulse. In short, he is mimicking the talking heads on RW media. I would bet that 90% of RW posts here are just the mindless regurgitation of what they heard on TV, the internet, or the radio.
     
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  9. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I know the type. It’s especially obvious when they group, usually at golf courses which seems to be a GOP breeding ground, and reinforce each other. When that happens, it’s an impenetrable barrier to truth. Obvious too, how one can predict what side many will come down upon on nearly every topic in the forum.
     
  10. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You’ll have keep disagreeing with our own military and soon, a majority of red states hit harder and harder by the evidence of climate change, not just in violent weather, but by newer and more viral strains if diseases that evolve faster then we humans can adapt.

    *
    peopleandtheplanet.com
    *Climate change will also affect infectious disease occurrence.” A number of diseases well known to be climate-sensitive, such as malaria, dengue fever, West Nile virus, cholera and Lyme disease, are expected to worsen as climate change results in higher temperatures and more extreme weather events.*
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  11. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    Aside from the fact that computer models aren't the primary or even secondary line of evidence scientist use to predict the global mean temperature they actually do quite well at both past and present climate eras. In fact, it is computer models and only computer models that have successfully hindcasted the glacial/interglacial cycles with reasonable skill. They do even better with more contemporary climate change. The only people who are dead wrong are those that selectively ignore one or more known climate forcing agents. If you ignore CO2 you won't even come close to explaining past or present climate change. That is a fact.
     
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  12. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Thats exactly right. Well put. Any number of scientist can made any claims they wish but general consensus is always open to potential discoveries. The general concensus is always limited by “ what we know now.”
    Global warming is a fact, not a concoction.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  13. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is not the first time that experts, in some narrow field of expertise, were sincerely left to believe that the world as we know it depends upon their wisdom and guidance. I have personally heard preachers and politicians make the same claim. In fact, the whole global warming hoax smacks of religion.
    I'm not buying it. The emperor has no clothes.
     
  14. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Narrow field of expertise ? Every university in the world, every major corporation, every free world military, every free world Govt.... .......narrow field ?

    How about the Bricklayers Union, they joined the BlueGreen Aliance in recognizing Climate change. The religion of bricklayers ?
    https://www.workdayminnesota.org/articles/bricklayers-join-bluegreen-alliance
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  15. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Donor

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    You overstate the significance of those who agree with you and understate the significance of those who disagree with you. I have read quite a bit from many contradictory points of view. I have had no problem finding very credible arguments made by very credible people who disagree with those you cite. I find their arguments to be reasonable. I do not find your arguments at all plausible. In my opinion, anthropogenic-catastrophic-global climate change is, at best, an anthropocentric arrogance, or at worst, a hoax. The same can be said of the others religions.
     
  16. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    If you Google "people who agree that Bigfoot exists" you're going to get a lot of hits for people who agree that Bigfoot exists.

    So when you start looking for "scientists who think climate change is a hoax," you're going to find conformational bias that climate change is a hoax. But like Bigfoot believers - it's still a very small sub-set of actual scientists.
     
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  17. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    All the universities and research institutes , the military, every major corporation and every govt In the free world aren’t credible ?

    What is ? Go ahead, list some of your credible resources. I’ve listed mine.....let’s compare.

    Btw, Science is based upon evidence. Religion is based upon faith. Faith by definition, requires the lack if evidence. AGW us not a religion. Not believing in AGW is a religion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  18. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Even your fellow bricklayers union disagrees with deniers.
    Other then Fox, you’d be hard pressed to find any institute that does not believe in AGW.
     
  19. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    The OP's premise is essentially because we don't have perfect knowledge of climate change it must therefore be a hoax and any prescribed mitigation steps are an overreach. That's as ridiculous a statement as saying because we don't know exactly how cancer works it must therefore be a hoax and any prescribed treatments of it are an overreach.
     
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  20. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Exactly...
    Not believing in AGW is the religion. All deniers have to do is create one element of doubt in one vague aspect of AGW, and their religious belief is realized.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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