We import key minerals needed for US defense — that's a security problem

Discussion in 'Science' started by Robert, May 11, 2019.

  1. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We have shown a lot of interest here about batteries, electric vehicles , etc, but seldom defense issues on rare earth minerals. Do we have any interest in our supply of rare earth minerals? We are chronically undersupplied. Should Trump propel us into the real age of minerals? What should congress be doing?

    Suppose Monday Congress got to work on this and dropped their hate phobia directed at Trump?


    https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-...nerals-needed-for-us-defense-thats-a-security

    America needs a new political discourse on hard-rock mining. Several recent assessments have concluded that meeting America’s growing need for minerals will be impossible without rapid growth in mining. But a high percentage of minerals critical to U.S. manufacturing and the defense industry are imported, and that’s worrisome.

    In 1995, the U.S. was dependent on imports for 100 percent of eight minerals. Today, it’s 18 key mineral resources — 14 of which have been deemed “critical” by the Defense Department and the Interior Department. And America is more than 50 percent import-reliant for another 30 minerals.


    Our nation’s import dependence for key minerals and metals has more than doubled over the past two decades. A case in point is rare earth metals, such as dysprosium, lanthanum and cerium, which are critical to building laser-guidance systems for weapons, jet-fighter engines, anti-missile defense systems and smart bombs. Rare earths are also needed for commercial products such as batteries for electric vehicles and other advanced technologies.


    Our import dependence also extends to such minerals as zinc, platinum, cobalt, tin and chromium, which are needed for hundreds of products.


    Yet, some politicians are seeking changes to the General Mining Law, which would have the unintended effect of increasing U.S. dependence on foreign minerals, which is already at a record high. These changes would lessen employment in the mining industry and reduce tax revenue.
     
    Moi621 likes this.
  2. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Top Rare Earth Mining Reserves by Country
    • China. Reserves: 44 million MT. ...
    • Brazil. Reserves: 22 million MT. ...
    • Russia. Reserves: 18 million MT. ...
    • India. Reserves: 6.9 million MT. ...
    • Australia. Reserves: 3.4 million MT. ...
    • Greenland. Reserves: 1.5 million MT. ...
    • United States. Reserves: 1.4 million MT. ...
    • More rare earth mining reserves by country.
    Nov 7, 2018
    Top Rare Earth Mining Reserves by Country | Investing News Network

    https://investingnews.com/daily/resource...metals.../rare-earth.../rare-earth-reserves-coun
     
  3. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    With only 3% of the reserves of China, the US needs to keep what it has for emergencies.
     
  4. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you for your contribution.

    Seems so far you and i are the only posters interested.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I agree with this caveat. We need to boost our supplies a lot. And store for the future.
     
  6. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Soon enough "Rare Earth" wont much matter anymore.
     
  7. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    15,838
    Likes Received:
    7,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Asteroid mining does seem to be the most logical(though not cheapest by far) way to deal with this. We need new sources more than we need more mining.

    But it appears that concerns about the changes in question are not really about our own rare earth needs.

    From the article:

    If these materials are so precious to us for domestic needs, why should we be worrying about a mining company's ability to sell them on international markets?

    It sounds like the mining lobby is more concerned about their ability to sell these minerals to the highest bidder on the inernational market than they are concerned that we need them for domestic national security. It just sounds like more pushing to mine public lands for private profit.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  8. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    12,496
    Likes Received:
    2,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Myself, I think the majority of "Rare Earth" products should be abolished.

    30 years ago, abut the only product that people owned that used them were Walkman headphones. But today, they are in everything from cell phones and batteries to almost anything else. And it is not that they can not be replaced, it is just that they often work better and are cheaper than older methods.

    And contrary to how the name sounds, they are not even particularly "rare". Most of them are among the most common elements on the planet. It is just that recovering them is highly destructive to the environment. The biggest offender and producer of them is China, because it is "cheap gold pulled form the ground" to them. But at the same time they are leaving behind tens of thousands of square miles of destroyed and polluted land that will be unusable for hundreds of years at best.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/aug/07/china-rare-earth-village-pollution

    I think we should have a world-wide ban on "Rare Earth" products that are not of critical use. Military, medical, advanced technology (satellites for example), and things like that. Not giving somebody an extra hour of life in their cell phone and making a children's toy that looks like a dog that makes barking noises last a few weeks later on it's built in battery that can not be changed.

    And no, you are very wrong about the "mining lobby". There is actually very little money made in this field, if a company does it properly. It is only that China does not give a damn about their environment and their destructive practices have led to it being dumped on the market which plunged the price. Abolish it's use in most areas, and the demand would fall to almost nothing. After all, this has worked in a great many things in the past.
     
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,873
    Likes Received:
    73,628
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    And a majority of those are what are called “rare earth” minerals. At the moment China has the production locked up but it is the refinement that is the real issue.

    https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/MRF/Areas/Resourceful-magazine/Issue-07/Rare-earth-challenge
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,873
    Likes Received:
    73,628
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Mate

    I am sitting on one of the biggest rare earth deposits in the world

    We just have to work out how to extract it
     
  11. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    12,496
    Likes Received:
    2,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not so much "locked up", more that with no real regulations they are destroying huge areas of their country without care in order to pull them from the ground. If the Government in the US controlled all land and mining they could do the same thing if all they cared about was money. But thankfully they do not.
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,873
    Likes Received:
    73,628
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    That and production is very dangerous with a high human mortality from what I understand
     
  13. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I too love the super complicated solution. But here on Earth, there is abundant supplies so long as the US takes it up with other nations to purchase theirs and store them in America.
     
  14. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I hate to put my trust in Australia.
     
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    12,496
    Likes Received:
    2,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It does not have to be. We have been mining Rare Earth Metals for over 200 years, but on a much smaller scale and less destructively. It is only in the last 20 years or so that they have become so common that their massive exploitation and damage that goes along with that large exploitation has become a problem. Prior to that, they were largely only used in making stronger magnets (perfect for things like the Walkman).
     
  16. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am still hoping to read a few solutions to the short supply on hand by the USA.

    Should we work diligently with other nations who have a far richer supply? Should we call on Putin for his assistance? We may have little chance today with China. But they will return to the table.
     
  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Trying to deal with autocracy and international politics would be FAR more complicated and a non starter.
     
  18. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You do realize that when talking about rare earth elements or even strategic metals like titanium a little goes a very long way so even with only a small % of the worlds reserves any 'emergency' that limited or stopped imports would have to last decades or longer to have an impact - assuming the U.S actually has;

    a) identified relevant deposits in advance;
    b) has prepared plans for extraction if necessary;
    c) has a limited stockpiles already.

    As for not putting 'trust' in exporters (overlooking the slur on Australia) these elements are not oil. You can't turn off the tap and shut down a whole countries economy overnight by stopping their imports of rear elements and nations you have reasonably good relations with are always going to be willing to sell at the right price.

    So in the scenario you are discussing either someone has to blockade US ports and your navy can't break that blockade (in which case a lack of rare elements s the least of your problems) or you have a situation where suddenly overnight the U.S has become the worlds new North Korea. - which is a scenario only one stop short of alien invasion as a likely cause of economic disruption given how many products the US in turn exports to the world.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  19. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Messages:
    2,690
    Likes Received:
    674
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, Trump had best start kissing the Indians, Brazilians and Australian’s bums.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,479
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Paying taxes to buy and store rare earths?

    Sorry. We've tried the "strategic reserves" idea in the past.

    As for Trump, he's an isolationist. Besides, he couldn't make a deal to save his life. I really don't know why you mentioned such a dead weight in a discussion of this topic.
     

Share This Page