We Need Factories for Making Products and Not for Making Jobs

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by expatpanama, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    82,348
    Likes Received:
    2,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    People didn't suddenly stop figuring out how to get goods and services starting in 1981.

    [​IMG]

    Something else happened that year.
     
  2. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    82,348
    Likes Received:
    2,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure, the ultra wealth have the Republican party to protect the "trickle down" policies that massively redistributed wealth from the middle class to them over the past 35 years.

    The real irony is all those millions who voted for self claimed billionaire donald thinking he would try to improve their situation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  3. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    26,309
    Likes Received:
    7,461
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
    Iriemon likes this.
  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What bothers me most is how he got elected.

    He lost the popular-vote by a significant 2.1% and yet the antiquated Electoral College made him PotUS. In no other country on earth can such happen ...
     
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well put - and a picture is worth a thousand words:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    WANNABE BILLIONAIRES

    Both go hand-in-hand when taxation policy is as cockamamie as it is in the US.

    We need only revisit Income Taxation and make it more progressive, and especially aggressively progressive at the higher incomes. What will happen, then?

    The Wall Street nerds will understand that it is not worth the effort (to obtain massive incomes) if taxation is so very high. They can still become millionaires and live a life of luxury - but we'll have in the US far fewer billionaires.

    As a consequence there will likely be far less temptation to foist SubPrime-like financial machinations in order to cash-in quick that inevitably sink the economy. In essence, the problem comes not from machine-shop owners becoming millionaires but twerps on Wall Street finagling markets that bring about an economic catastrophe (as happened in 2010 with the Great Recession).

    The manipulations must stop. And who would care one tiny bit if that happened?

    The Wannabe Billionaires ...

    Good read:
    Top 20 billionaires worth as much as half of America
    Excerpt:
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What cozy arrangement between the FED and Wall Street Banks?

    Proof please ...
     
  8. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    82,348
    Likes Received:
    2,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We didn't start having "Debt based consumption and the cozy arrangement between the FED and the wall street banks" in 1981.

    [​IMG]

    Something else happened that year.
     
  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's a human problem...95% of us just can't think our way out of a paper bag! Whether it's extreme bias from things like religion or politics, or intellectual laziness, or learning disabilities, with a dose of arrogance and righteousness, we're a pathetic lot! There is no impetus for change because of the arrogance and righteousness factors...
     
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Religious and political polarizations! Not being capable of looking beyond one's own needs. Laziness and ignorance...
     
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes but you can't do this...minimum wages are determined by the minimum wage law, and, the cost of living in a particular area. Minimum wage in SF is much greater than minimum wage in Mayberry RFD, the cost of living is much higher in SF, yet people and business have flocked to SF. Depending on what type of business one has, what type of labor is required, business must go wherever this labor is located.
     
  12. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    26,309
    Likes Received:
    7,461
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Many other countries don't have such low turnout. And I think you're mistaken if you think the U.S. is different enough regarding religion and polarization and laziness. Maybe besides feeling like voting is pointless and hopeless, you would be right about ignorance. We have been the subject of long and intense brainwashing propaganda. For example, in many European countries people have open and honest public discussions of the pros and cons of capitalism, socialism, and communism, but here we fell it shouldn't be mentioned as capitalism is "clearly the best and only system that makes sense". And mentioning communism in any positive way is a "sure sign" of insanity.

    Obviously our brainwashing doesn't end with this question. Reagan also successfully brainwashed many to believe that "the problem is government". So you may be right about the ignorance issue.
     
  13. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'll stick to my original comment; Religious and political polarizations! Not being capable of looking beyond one's own needs. Laziness and ignorance...

    People turn out either through a respect for the system or when they believe there's something in it for them. How many will vote if the primary presidential candidate is saying they will eliminate SS on their first day in office? Or that they will raise income taxes by 25%?
     
  14. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    26,309
    Likes Received:
    7,461
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm curious as to how you see religion leading to voter apathy. Do you feel the religious just leave it all up to god? And I would think political polarizations would induce more to vote, -not less. Witness the growing interest in speaking out, protesting, and showing up at town hall meetings.
     
  15. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What do you suppose would happen if a prime presidential candidate was openly an Atheist or a Muslim? I hate religion in politics and society because various religious beliefs are forced on others! The debate on abortion should have nothing to do with religious beliefs.

    Political polarizations just make voters stupid. All the voters who vote party line are stupid...
     
  16. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    82,348
    Likes Received:
    2,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Millions of hard working Americans didn't suddenly stop thinking their way out of a paper bag, start having extreme bias, intellectual laziness, learning disabilities, or arrogance or righteousness in 1981.

    [​IMG]

    Something else happened that year.

    Always fun to watch what conservatives and 1% apologists will come up with to avoid acknowledging the obvious.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  17. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    82,348
    Likes Received:
    2,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Make it locally determined.

    I agree that the MW is not the optimal way to get workers sharing the the income and wealth they helped created. Better would be enhanced worker representation laws whereby worker's wages can be bargained as a unit as opposed to an individual. Then market forces are more in play. Enhanced overtime laws would be a benefit, as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  18. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Still on your diatribe??

    Try reading what I wrote;

    It's a human problem...95% of us just can't think our way out of a paper bag! Whether it's extreme bias from things like religion or politics, or intellectual laziness, or learning disabilities, with a dose of arrogance and righteousness, we're a pathetic lot! There is no impetus for change because of the arrogance and righteousness factors...

    Open your eyes to everything going on today and all of it falls into one of the categories I mention above. Nothing today has anything to do with 1981...
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ALL people have a choice how to participate in the economy and society. They can be bums, or employees, or business owners, or invest in others, etc. etc. Whatever choice each person makes will determine the outcome for them. Anyone who does not like the status quo simply needs to review their lives and make some changes that will reward change. Minimum wages, poverty wages, living wages, etc. are never going to be a solution to anything...
     
  20. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    82,348
    Likes Received:
    2,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ahh, it's just a big coinky dinky that income inequality started exploding in 1981, eh?

    [​IMG]


    How unusual for a 1% apologist.

    I read what you wrote. It is the same blame the middle class blather I see from all the 1% apologists and most conservatives. I appreciate you like to blame the millions of hard working Americans for the fact that virtually all the growth in wealth and income has gone to the rich since 1981.

    But millions of hard working Americans didn't suddenly start being arrogant and righteous in 1981.

    Something else happened that year.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  21. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    82,348
    Likes Received:
    2,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    People didn't suddenly start deciding to be bums and not share in the prosperity they helped create in 1981.

    [​IMG]

    Something else happened that year.

    Though it is patently obvious why conservatives and 1% apologists will not admit the obvious.

    Ya think?

    Let's reverse "trickle down" policies and see. Cut FICA taxes. Raise income, investment, and estate taxes. Empower unions to represent more workers. Broaden overtime and fair labor laws. Increase the MW to earlier levels.

    Somehow, I'm guessing you won't agree to these things so that working Americans can share in the income and wealth gains they've helped to create.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,325
    Likes Received:
    38,994
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's all in how you shift the issue and then cherry pick your years to distort the data...............try it on the newbies.

    Now try addressing my original post


    Hardly it has resulted in a better standard of living for all those who want to go out and grab a piece of rather than wallow in their jealousy. And again the premise of your argument is that these are static groups which they certainly are not.

    Tell me why should the people at the bottom who have not even done enough to earn a middle class standard of living expect to share in the wealth those at the top earned?

    Why should the wage for frying french fries be higher now other than for inflation than it was when Reagan was President.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  23. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    5,000
    Likes Received:
    718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You didn't answer, where, from whom, did that $4 billion subprime 'earnings' windfall come from?

    For one thing, before the oil shock of the 70's, a (usually male) mean wage breadwinner was able to support a wife and 3 or 4 kids on his single wage, above poverty level, so you will find the answer there.

    We have all been shafted by neoliberalism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  24. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    5,000
    Likes Received:
    718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Simple reality.

    In today's complex, globalising, increasingly automating economy, your Anarchist fantasy is just that - fantasy.

    Yes this is a problem, but when Obama tried to do just that (raise taxes on the wealthy,. reduce taxes on the middle class) the Republican apologists for the rich blocked the plan.

    And I see you are happy to join hands with Bluesguy, who sees no need for any upper limit to wealth, in a world where poverty is still a reality for many - and he thinks the casino which is a cover for the "efficient allocation of capital" in the present dysfunctional financial system, is a legitimate means of 'wealth creation', despite the example of the GFC which pauperised untold lives around the globe. (Even Buffett referred to financial derivatives as ("financial instruments of mass destruction")
     
  25. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Did you have a point or were you just using words that sounded cool?
     

Share This Page