Weather station in Antarctica records high of 65, the continent's hottest temperature ever

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MrTLegal, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Folks in the fold don't actually understand science which is why they are so susceptible to the message... It's all about feelz and guilt...
     
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  2. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Argument of the Stone Fallacy. Your argument here takes the form A->B, !A.

    "nananana I can't hear you" is not a valid counter-argument.

    Redefinition Fallacy. (science <-> credentials)

    Bulverism Fallacy. Your argument here takes the form A->B, (*A)->!B.

    Discarding an argument because of who is making it is not a valid counter-argument either, as it does not address the content of my argument.


    Therefore, no valid counter-argument to my argumentation has been presented. My post #786 still stands.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  3. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    All frequencies are not the concern. Only the IR is needed for the CO2 to be warmed the rest can go where it will. :)
    Your correct on the direction of heat, but you should get out more. Have you never noticed that cloudy evenings are warmer than clear ones?
     
  4. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    [1] Falsify the laws of thermodynamics and the stefan-boltzmann law.

    [2] Describe Greenhouse Effect in a way that does not violate the laws of thermodynamics and the stefan-boltzmann law.

    Whichever one you wish to do is up to you.
     
  5. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Just within the thread title alone, he is falsely equating a weather station in Antarctica to Antarctica itself. As you said, it is indeed quite laughable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  6. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    The next ice age won't happen for at least 40 or 50,000 years according to orbital mechanics as calculated by Milankovitch and verified by computer modelling of the Earth's orbit.

    Sorry, that is not going to help us out of all the problems we are facing with climate change. In fact, it is entirely possible that man-made warming from CO2 could override changes in the Earth's orbit and delay the cooling trend.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  7. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    How does the greenhouse effect defy the laws of thermodynamics? That makes no sense.
     
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  8. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    I've been to Antarctica and walked around in shirt sleeves, and another day couldn't even see outside for the Herbie, for certain one weather station, and one day, does not equate to all of Antarctica. Still though, to claim these guys, "Folks in the fold don't actually understand science," as drluggit said, is more than seriously laughable: https://science.nasa.gov/ems/13_radiationbudget
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  9. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    What if colder air brings those clouds in?

    In the end, we don't know what the temperature would have been if those clouds had not been there during those precise conditions at that precise point in time.
     
  10. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    See my posts #754 and #786.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  11. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Therefore, no valid counter-argument to my argumentation has been presented. My post #786 still stands.[/QUOTE]
    Because you think heat can't go from cold to warm? That is true but that is not what is happening in the upper atmosphere. Infrared radiation is absorbed by the chemical bonds in greenhouse gases like CO2 and then not re-emitted back to space.

    It is a little like a blanket holding heat in.
     
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  12. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Correct.

    drluggit is correct. They don't understand science.

    NASA is not science either. NASA is a government agency. Science is simply a set of falsifiable theories.
     
  13. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    I never get tired of watching this simple demonstration:

     
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  14. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    The water vapor was just an example for you.
    Do you want to take this time to address the first part of my post.
     
  15. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    So all the other scientific organizations like NOAA or Association for the Advancement of Science that endorse man-made climate change don't understand science either?

    But drluggit does?
     
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  16. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Wait...why does it have to be "entirely and exclusively?" Why can't it be the majority or some other percentage between 1% and 99%?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  17. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Then go edit the Wikipedia page. Let me know how long your edit lasts.
     
  18. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    The National Science Foundation wasn't Science either, it contained scientists though. The planes being funded by and operated for the National Science Foundation, which meant the planes did not say they were Navy and had to be repainted once, so I had a theory (really hypothesis) something criminal was up, when the Captain said the Base canceled our squadron's comrats, so I went the base legal department and got a letter, and proved my theory right and watched our CO, XO, and legal officer turn beet red, the proof later came when people got in trouble for embezzling; we kept comrats.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Falsifiability
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  19. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Again, hard pass on your attempt at logic or science.

    It is entirely possible to determine an average temperature for a location through a statistical analysis of the specific data points and thus, it is entirely possible to say what the average temperature is for the State of Rhode Island. You can argue over whether the size of the margins of error, but it is illogical to claim that an average is impossible to determine.

    Relatedly, we can use the temperature measurements taken at the same place and with the same instrumentation over a period of time to determine increases. It does not matter if the temperature gauges are not uniformly placed around the planet (except to the extent that it would affect the size of the margin of error) if the same spot is measured with the same instrumentation and that instrumentation shows an increase over the respective period of time for years or even decades.
     
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  20. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    The title thread is contained at the top of every single page on this thread.
     
  21. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    You have this defense mechanism where you try to avoid questions by calling out random logical fallacies even when they do not apply.

    I ask again if you have any credentials in real life in this particular field? Hell, I would be willing to accept a website link to a source from a known scientist with credentials that supports your theory of how AGW violates the Laws of Thermodynamics.
     
  22. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    I think the goal is to falsify, if you can, but not really start with something you know is false.
     
  23. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    Like I mention “guys” and he says, “NASA is not science either. NASA is a government agency.” Normally I would just quote some "liberal" debate tactic site, but dagnabbit they bees conservatives, I think, maybe...

    https://battalions2.wordpress.com/2006/06/21/good-old-liberal-debate-tactics/
     
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  24. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Correct. It is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

    Okay, so the IR emitted from the Earth's surface (well, only a select bit of that IR, since not all photons are of the same frequency) (and also remember that this action is cooling the Earth's surface) gets absorbed by CO2, and the CO2 molecule is now warmed somewhat. The warm surface is now cooling itself by heating the air (mostly by conduction, but some of that is done by radiation as well).

    What comes next for the CO2 molecule that has now absorbed some IR from Earth and has warmed somewhat?

    This returns us back to my post #754, where I mention the false equivalencies that are being made. In this case, you have already made two false equivalences (heat <-> thermal energy) (open convective system <-> closed convective system) and are now working your way towards forming the third one (non-energy source <-> energy source).

    A blanket does not "hold heat in". A blanket reduces heat. Let's first clear up your confusion. Heat is NOT thermal energy. Heat is the flow of thermal energy. Wrapping a blanket around oneself works, first off, because our bodies themselves are an energy source (we are "warm blooded"). Try wrapping a blanket around a dead person and see how well that works out for ya! ;) Additionally, the blanket acts as a coupling reducer between the "trapped air" underneath the blanket and the outside air. Heat has been reduced. With that reduction of heat, our body can now keep itself warmer much easier.

    The upper atmosphere has no "lid". There is nothing stopping heat from flowing out into space.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  25. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    snip
    It takes the rest of the day off.
    Unless of course if you add more CO2. then there is more absorbed heat.
    The lid is the atmosphere. Otherwise our climate would be like the moons.
     

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