Welfare State vs. Warfare State.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by hoytmonger, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. hoytmonger

    hoytmonger New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Or is there a difference?

    I would suggest that those wishing a strong international military presence are as guilty of bankrupting the US as those wishing entitlements.

    http://mises.org/daily/5925/Military-Spending-and-Bastiats-Unseen
     
  2. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Do you think it fiscally more prudent to allow potential enemies to come to your doorstep?

    I prefer to keep them as far away as possible.
     
  3. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    18,921
    Likes Received:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well genius the problem is the rest of the Western World is naked and incapable of protecting itself, or the trade lanes that we rely on everyday for the transport of people, products and money in an interconnected globalized economy.

    Whether you like it or not, America does not have the natural resources within its borders to keep our economy moving and some of those natural resources that we vitally need are located within some very unstable regions that require an overwhelming presence of military might in order to ensure certain bad actors within the region that they best keep their imperialistic agendas to themselves.

    Saudi national security is directly linked with America's national security. They are one and the same.

    South Korea, Japan and Taiwan are all linked directly to US economic interests. They cannot be broken, even in the case of war, without serious economic consequences both in Asia and here at home.

    You are pretending that we can just "batten down the hatches" and hide from the instability of the world and take whatever consequences were to emerge from that action.

    That is simply not true.

    The globalized economy demands a world free of major warfare, revolts, and international terrorism that prevent access to emerging markets and natural resources. Our economic growth could possibly be affected or endangered by a tiny little nation you never even heard of, that is how interconnected we are.

    But let me guess, you probably hate the globalized economy too.

    There couldn't be a McDonald's restaurant in every country on Earth without McDonnell-Douglas.
     
  4. hoytmonger

    hoytmonger New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So both of you prefer a large, expansive, aggressive military that bankrupts the US... you're progressives and no better than PrezBO.

    The US has no duty to police the world and the rest of the world doesn't want the US being their police. The only people that want that are statists.
     
  5. darckriver

    darckriver New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    7,773
    Likes Received:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A minimal welfare AND minimal warfare state is preferable to me than the current maximal welfare AND maximal warfare state.
     
  6. hoytmonger

    hoytmonger New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    0
    People don't realize that wars cost money.
     
  7. sandyd

    sandyd New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Maybe we need to look at how to change that.
     
  8. Tipper101

    Tipper101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,916
    Likes Received:
    1,570
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Welfare take up over 50% of our budget. These are our entitlements.

    Defense spending is 18% of our budget.



    ....the two are not comparable.


    Furthermore, our military is not expendable. Entitlements are. To think otherwise is to deny the reality of the world we live in and the importance of the role we have in stabilizing it.
     
  9. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    35,112
    Likes Received:
    25,235
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Amen. Wars not only cost money fighting the actual war (not to mention the amount of fraud and waste that comes with defense contractors) but largest financial burden would be the amount of soldiers coming home maimed and psychologically damaged, their treatment costs as much as the war and the societal effects are much more damaging.

    People also fail to realize the amount of PERMANENT damage that putting people (or entire family units) on government entitlements causes not only to the psyche of the individual that has been taught that they cannot live on their own merits, but also the damage that is done to the population as a whole by having to prop up able bodied individuals because they are lazy pos's; in nature these individuals would be left to die...
     
  10. kenrichaed

    kenrichaed Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8,539
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Warfare adds to society in many ways while entitlements add nothing yet take everything away.
     
  11. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    34,039
    Likes Received:
    429
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    It doesn't take any massive amount of scholarship, to KNOW what you say is not true.

    Do you REALLY believe what you've said above?
     
  12. kenrichaed

    kenrichaed Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8,539
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not only that, but I can PROVE it!
     
  13. jor

    jor New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The CBO says jobless benefits encourage joblessness. While some say that increasing jobless benefits / entitlements show you are compassionate, that is not the case. In fact it forces them to be reliant on the government instead of trying to make it on their own.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/16/cbo-says-jobless-benefits-encourage-joblessness/

    As for warfare, it is good and bad IMO. We are being the policeman of the world while making people and countries angry at us. We lose young men and women who go to the front lines for us. However, amongst all of this bad, there is some good. The military contractors are able to continue sell products which helps the economy and gives people jobs. Also, new inventions are being created that may be beneficial to us.

    I want to cut both the military and welfare.
     
  14. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    16,593
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    83
  15. kenrichaed

    kenrichaed Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8,539
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree to an extent. The kids are volunteering for service so you can only feel so much pity for them. Its their choice to put their lives at risk and knowing our government's penchant for stupid wars that's a likely possibility.

    Secondly, If we go to war for oil than take the (*)(*)(*)(*) oil and quit worrying about spending American money to rebuild their country. Taking the spoils of war will more than pay off the cost of maintaining operations.
     
  16. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    17,158
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Why do we need a McDonald's in every country on Earth, again? I mean, I can see why the McDonald's corporation wants that. But why are the rest of us paying for it?
     
  17. danboy9787

    danboy9787 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You are either going to have enemies within your government, or from the outside. We will never live in a perfect safe civilization. Would you rather fear your enemies, or your government?
     
  18. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    10,350
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Not every country on Earth has McDonalds.
     
  19. NavyIC1

    NavyIC1 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Entitlements are welfare for the poor. Defense spending is welfare for the Rich.
     
  20. NavyIC1

    NavyIC1 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    0
    and yet they don't do that. We kept hearing how we will get oil from Iraq but so far I have not heard about us getting anything for it other than dead and wounded citizens.
     
  21. kenrichaed

    kenrichaed Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8,539
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yep your right. Every oil well in Iraq should be flying an American flag until we are paid back with interest.
     
  22. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,808
    Likes Received:
    209
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Sun Tzu
    "There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare."

    Enough said there...
     
  23. hoytmonger

    hoytmonger New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The US spends more than six times the amount of money on military than the next leading country, China.
    Like all empires the US will fail if it doesn't cut spending.
     

Share This Page