What are the enemies of democracy?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Aristotle66, Dec 19, 2021.

  1. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Did they use them? Did they have signatures that would pass inspection? Were their names on the ballots? I may have left out the oart where you get arrested and charged if your signature pops up more than once.

    Please describe this "traditional, secure voting." What makes you so sure that it was any more secure than the mail-in systems here in Colorado? Do you know how many cheated those in-person systems, or tried to, by falsifying registrations?

    Here is the most definitive list of known attempts at voter fraud across all states, going back decades.

    https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

    Let me know when you find that "massive fraud" via mail-in ballots.
     
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  2. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They've now had a year.

    Seriously, show me the facts, and your sources. How were recounts and audits "fettered"? Just because the nut jobs who ran the phony audit in Arizona took several months doesn't mean that it took election officials that long to recheck their numbers.

    There.
    Was.
    No.
    Fraud.

    Biden won fair and square, which is why the GOP is working so hard to replace those multi-partisan officials with Trumpists. 2020 was practice.
     
  3. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, then I guess I'm not as impartial as I thought, because your brilliance escapes me.

    (Kidding! You tee'd it up for me ... how am I supposed to resist? :love: )
     
  4. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    It's been over a year, but there has not been a second of a special counsel investigation. A special counsel investigation is needed to get to the bottom of this. It should be like the Mueller investigation: funded by the government, no time table, and it should investigate everyone from the Biden campaign, including Biden himself, for any and all criminality whatsoever.
     
  5. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    Or perhaps you are impartial, but you are not brilliant enough to understand your impartiality nor the unbelievable level of my absolute brilliance.
     
  6. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ooh! A challenge! Unless you've already read it in one of my posts, where would you put my education level?

    This is even more fun than someone trying to guess my age, a feat that no one has accomplished since I turned 30 (and that was exactly 40 years ago).

    :clapping:
     
  7. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, puhleeze.

    You asked about Reich's accomplishments and I gave them to you. And when you saw the quite beefy list of those accomplishments, the back pedaling began.

    BTW, those who have never written a book, or tried to, often dismiss them as inconsequential when others get published. I can only conclude that since you don't agree with Reich's views, you're trying to make him out to be "just a talking head."
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
  8. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    4th grade?

    To quote you: "(Kidding! You tee'd it up for me ... how am I supposed to resist? :love: )"

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  9. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    They did. Where have you been?
     
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  10. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Then why are you and your cohort so "sure" there was widespread fraud when all the normal checks and confirmations found no significant problems?

    Like Cyber Ninjas?

    To do it reliably it needs to be people with experience and knowledge of vote confirmation, certification, and other details of the process so that they know what to look for and where to look.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
  11. trumptman

    trumptman Newly Registered

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    That wasn't backpedaling. Academia is supposed to help inform our world. When you generate millions of words and they don't inform anything that isn't an accomplishment. You'd have been better off calling him a renown science fiction writer.
     
  12. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There isn't enough evidence to fill a tea cup, much less require a special counsel at great expense to taxpayers. Why are 60+ dismissed court cases not enough?

    There's no cause for further investigation. Trump and his followers are grasping at straws to try to prove a lie. Trump lost the election. He and his followers need to accept that, or no election going forward will have an acceptable outcome, and we may as well kiss democracy goodbye.
     
  13. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, right ... I gotta look away, I'm not wearing my sunglasses right now ...
     
  14. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :roflol:

    :applause:

    Yes, I am. To quote a line from a TV series, spoken by an actress even older than I, " You don't want to get into a pissing match with me ... all I do is piss!"

    Heh heh heh :lol:
     
  15. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe they only inform those willing to learn. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink if someone has convinced it that it isn't thirsty.

    Also, it would seem that you don't read much sci-fi, but have some respect for Science Fiction writers. Most of them are really smart people. Let's see you try to create an entire world, or solar system, or universe, then have the skill and the will to write it all down.

    Just out of curiosity, what books do you like to read? Genuine question, not trying to bait you.
     
  16. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The enemy of democracy is a President claiming there is fraud when there isn't.

    The enemy of democracy is a President telling the people that the 'press is the enemy of the people'

    The enemy of democracy is a President claiming the opponents stole the election when it is was he who is trying to steal the election

    The enemy of democracy is running a corrupt WH rife with criminals.

    I could go on, but, why bother?
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  17. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your analogy doesn't work. We've had mail in voting since the Civil War.

    the issue is this:

    Was there sufficient fraud that would have affected the outcome of the election?

    There is no evidence, to date, for that claim, or is there any evidence that mail in voting would lead to it.

    We've had mail in voting since the Civil War, and it was never an issue, until Trump.

    Do the math.
     
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  18. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    America has been voting for presidents for how many hundreds of years, and no evidence of massive fraud, to date?

    How much more centuries will it take for you guys to realize your living in la la land?
     
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  19. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree except for the election. The parties treat elections like re districting where it is a battle over advantages,with zero regard for voters. Polls show voters want it tightened up. Rasmussen polling showed voters overwhelmingly against his interference. (https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pu...ers_against_zuckerbucks_influencing_elections)
    Back to the point here, is cheating in China is considered to be “clever”. In 2018, China decreed that all Chinese overseas are required to commit espionage.
    I think we have an issue nearly all of us can agree on.
    Mail in voting is good as long as it is one ballot per legally registered voter. I’m sure you saw the photo of a guy arrested with a few hundred stolen absentee ballots.
    Also “gang” mailboxes like in subdivisions visions, apartment lobby boxes all pretty much use the same keys, and they have been opened and unmarked ballots stolen.
    I asked (via e mail) the Secretary of State how many absentee ballots has been returned to sender… no response. in 2019 California had 5 million ineligible people on the rolls - dead, moved, etc. There were 18 million California votes cast for President.in 2020.
    Judicial Watch sued them and won but they are being accused of dragging their feet.
    For the leader of the free world, our election systems are a sloppy embarrassment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
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  20. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is a disingenuous statement.

    CA did NOT have '5 million ineligible voters" on it's rolls.

    It had 5 million INACTIVE voters on it's rolls, some of those were dead, moved, or ineligible.

    The FACT is that NONE (or not a significant number ) of them participated in the 18 million who did vote, which is why they are being purged ( by sending a return mail card, if they do not return it, they are purged ). this is standard stuff, all states do this. The 'lawsuit you are implying something untoward but that's just not the case, the law suit is just to get California, who was lazy about cleaning it's rolls, to clean them.

    there is NO evidence of voter fraud or the vote count was invalid.
    You make a claim, ( judicial watch) the onus is on you to provide a link to back it up, it's courtesy. Don't expect others to do your work for you, thank you.

    When there are 165,000,000 ballots cast, there will always be discrepancies.

    They are unavoidable, every election has had them, in one shape or form or another.

    But there never has been a large enough number, nor where near a large enough number to affect the outcome of an election.

    All Trump did was over trump normal irregularities and make hay out of it.

    Since no president ever did that before, it seemed like a brand new thing to his flock, and they lapped it up, they took it as evidence dems were cheating.

    But it wasn't. It was a big lie.

    Trump is the only president in history to declare, before the first ballot was cast, that 'the only way democrats can win is if they rig the election'.

    That is probably the most irresponsible thing a president could have have said, and republicans didn't notice.

    In fact, they swallowed it hook line and sinker.

    Doesn't say much about Republicans.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
  21. trumptman

    trumptman Newly Registered

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    You can't make him drink of the water is gasoline as well.

    The point of experts and their claims is they should be predictive or falsifiable. Sure economics isn't a pure hard science but in broad terms someone should be more right than wrong.

    Also, and certainly we've seen entertainment be guilty of this, if you write the same story twenty different ways then you aren't really saying something new. When you look at Reich's books, many of them are simply stating how liberal ideals will win the day in future America.

    1989: The Resurgent Liberal: And Other Unfashionable Prophecies
    2004: Reason: Why Liberals Will Win the Battle for America
    2015: Saving Capitalism: For the Many, Not the Few
    2020: The System: Who Rigged It, How We Fix It

    Revisiting the same points and simply updating the timelines, buzzwords, and turning the prior failed predictions into new future predictions... that isn't much of an accomplishment to me.

    As for what I read, tons of science fiction, lots of good murder mysteries, plenty of sociology books, good biographies, often of musicians and interesting public figures, and finally whatever wanders across my eyeballs and strikes my fancy.

    Last four books (last one is still being read)
    Pandemia: How Coronavirus Hysteria Took Over Our Government, Rights, and Lives-Alex Berenson
    Eddie and the Cruisers - P.F. Kluge, Sherman Alexie
    Red: My Uncensored Life in Rock - Sammy Hagar
    The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine -Michael Lewis
     
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  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The normal checks and balances deal with the accuracy of the count, not with the legality of the ballots. We know for sure that many illegal ballots were counted in Pennsylvania, for instance. The accuracy of the count is not the issue.

    I'm not sure there was widespread fraud. After all, it was never investigated. I am sure that there were many many reports of fraud, more than I have seen in any prior election. The one thing that changed in the 2020 election was the wholesale mailing of unsolicited ballots which is a serious breach of election security making election security questionable. I don't know the effects of all of this and neither do you Nobody knows.
     
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  23. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You write like someone with above average educational attainment.
     
  24. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The bolded - the best I can do with funky highlighter -
    I do get the ballot post card as you described, but you do not opt in, you opt out. So an “inactive” voter gets a ballot unless Sec of State is notified otherwise.

    Voter rolls: (broad brush article)
    https://www.judicialwatch.org/ballot-update-judicial-watch-cleans-up-dirty-voter-rolls/

    (Calif specific)
    https://www.judicialwatch.org/calif...as-part-of-judicial-watch-lawsuit-settlement/
    2 million in L.A. county alone. (There are 5 counties that make up “L.A. - Los Angeles County, Orange County, Ventura County, Riverside County. Population 18 million) Do the math for me.

    C
    alifornia does not know home many ineligible people are on it’s rolls. It may be 10 million. Either way, you can be sure the Sec of State knows how many “return to sender” ballots escaped ballot harvesters and were returned. (BTW, off topic slightly - California is being sued again for refusal to produce the state “checkbook” for public scrutiny and/or audit - the same attitude as Sec of State and my Return to Sender issue.

    T
    here is no reason our elections should hinge on the idea of “cheating isn’t the American way.” The fights are by politicians over partisan advantage. They choose to ignore citizens polls showing an overwhelming desire for more secure elections.

    BTW, if you are dead or moved, you are “ineligible”. LOL.

     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
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  25. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    again, you pretend to ignore the fact that the voting methods/rules were practically changed overnight using covid as an excuse to steal. when you start acknowledging the change in voting rules, maybe i'll take your claims more seriously
     
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