As previously stated, Eons ago the Unlimited Spirit separated us from itself and gave us awareness of our individual existence.
But what leads you to believe that the "Unlimited Spirit" separated us? How can you be sure that the idea of "separation" is not our own mistaken belief?
. That was the recollection of those who underwent past life regression. For an alternative concept of origins, would you prefer instead the idea of God grabbing a handful of clay, and so on? For thousands of years the wise have pointed to a supposed spiritual component of humans. If there is a small piece of God in each of us, how else did it get there? The striving to achieve wholeness is an indication of incompleteness.
Personally, I don't think we are actually "separated", but more like in a state of amnesia. We forget who we really are so that we truly have free choice. If we knew who we actually were, that we were all god, then we would not truly have free will, which would deny the universe (which is all god) the ability to truly experience itself. As we uncover more and more of the spiritual truths of the universe through many many incarnations, we become closer to "the one". Whether we actually rejoin the universal consciousness or start the process again somehow at that point, who knows?
But you seem to be saying that God is a separate entity.... and that God....as a separate entity...separated us from himself. My question is how can you be so sure that God is separate and that we had/have nothing to do with the separation.... if in fact a separation exists.
Thanks for input. I was attached to that idea of "free will" for quite a while....in the same way you have described it. But couple years ago one of the right leaning participants here claimed that the Bible doesn't actually say anything about "free will". I think he's right...I could not find any reference.
I don’t pay a whole lot of attention to the Bible. It has some good stuff in it, and some not so good. I think every religion has some truths and some garbage. I let my own soul take the bits that resonate with me and discard the rest. I think the real answers lie within us, if we really listen.
Okay...but then where did you get this idea that "we have free will"??? The only place I've heard that idea is from the so called "christians" who claim "choose Jesus or go to hell...you are free to choose".... or something like that. Where did you get the idea we've ever had "free will"?
Read the "Law of One" or "A Course in Miracles". Those are the two spiritual texts that have my attention these days. They lay it out very well, demonstrating that free will is the entire point of existence. The whole purpose of the universe, of life, and everything is so that the intelligent infinity, the universe, god, or whatever you want to call it can experience itself. The only way it can have a sense of itself is through contrasts. This is attained by intelligent infinity separating consciousness from the whole, completely cut off from the truth that they are part of the creator, as everything is. It is only in this state of being cut off from the truth that we can truly act independently and make our own decisions. It is through our actions and experiences, both positive and negative, that creation has a sense of itself through the contrasts our experiences create. That's where I get the idea of free will. It is everything, our reason for being.
Yes, as a nonphysical spirit outside of our space-time reality, probably occupying higher dimensions and operating on time scales much faster than ours, say, at the speed of light and faster. Everything has a beginning and an end, and the beginning has a cause. No system can be the cause of itself. Having something to do with the separation implies our pre-existence, which is contradictory to the origin in wholeness, unity, within God. As per Tom Campbell, we are FWAUs (free will awareness units), or IUOCs (individuated units of consciousness). If we are growing and learning, then we must be doing so towards something, which implies that we must have started growing from something. If you want to focus on the idea that God is in everything around us, that's cute and perhaps feasible, but it may imply that God cannot manifest without extricating himself from all that he is into.
thanks. I am not familiar with "Law of One", but I think there is still a copy of ACIM around here. can you point to a location in ACIM that refers to our having "free will"?
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. How does the fact that we temporarily can't remember where we originated prove that we could not possibly have existed...forever? And why should we believe someone called Tom Campbell?
Here you go! T-30.II.1. Do you not understand that to oppose the Holy Spirit is to fight yourself? 2 He tells you but your will; He speaks for you. 3 In His Divinity is but your own. 4 And all He knows is but your knowledge, saved for you that you may do your will through Him. 5 God asks you do your will. 6 He joins with you. 7 He did not set His Kingdom up alone. 8 And Heaven itself but represents your will, where everything created is for you. 9 No spark of life but was created with your glad consent, as you would have it be. 10 And not one Thought that God has ever had but waited for your blessing to be born. 11 God is no enemy to you. 12 He asks no more than that He hear you call Him "Friend." T-30.II.2. How wonderful it is to do your will! 2 For that is freedom. 3 There is nothing else that ever should be called by freedom's name. 4 Unless you do your will you are not free. 5 And would God leave His Son without what he has chosen for himself? 6 God but ensured that you would never lose your will when He gave you His perfect Answer. 7 Hear It now, that you may be reminded of His Love and learn your will. 8 God would not have His Son made prisoner to what he does not want. 9 He joins with you in willing you be free. 10 And to oppose Him is to make a choice against yourself, and choose that you be bound. T-30.II.3. Look once again upon your enemy, the one you chose to hate instead of love. 2 For thus was hatred born into the world, and thus the rule of fear established there. 3 Now hear God speak to you, through Him Who is His Voice and yours as well, reminding you that it is not your will to hate and be a prisoner to fear, a slave to death, a little creature with a little life. 4 Your will is boundless; it is not your will that it be bound. 5 What lies in you has joined with God Himself in all creation's birth. 6 Remember Him Who has created you, and through your will created everything. 7 Not one created thing but gives you thanks, for it is by your will that it was born. 8 No light of Heaven shines except for you, for it was set in Heaven by your will. T-30.II.4. What cause have you for anger in a world that merely waits your blessing to be free? 2 If you be prisoner, then God Himself could not be free. 3 For what is done to him whom God so loves is done to God Himself. 4 Think not He wills to bind you, Who has made you co-creator of the universe along with Him. 5 He would but keep your will forever and forever limitless. 6 This world awaits the freedom you will give when you have recognized that you are free. 7 But you will not forgive the world until you have forgiven Him Who gave your will to you. 8 For it is by your will the world is given freedom. 9 Nor can you be free apart from Him Whose holy Will you share. T-30.II.5. God turns to you to ask the world be saved, for by your own salvation is it healed. 2 And no one walks upon the earth but must depend on your decision, that he learn death has no power over him, because he shares your freedom as he shares your will. 3 It is your will to heal him, and because you have decided with him, he is healed. 4 And now is God forgiven, for you chose to look upon your brother as a friend.
Sounds to me like what ACIM is referring to as "free will" is what God...including ourselves .....have previously agreed on....perhaps predetermined. It does not actually say that we have the power to do anything outside the will of God... if that is what you are implying.
In a sense you are right, as nothing exists except god. We are all small aspects of god, existing so that god, or creation, can experience itself. It is the contrast created by free will that allows god to experience itself. Without darkness there can be no light. We are cut off from the source when we are first incarnated as humans so that we can truly choose between negative or positive polarity, because only in "forgetting" that we are god can we provide the free will that generates the contrasting polarity that gives existence any meaning at all. In a sense it is all an illusion, as everything is one, everything is god. Lol, hopefully i'm making sense, whether you agree or not, but I'm probably all over the place.
But that is still only one assumption.....that "pieces of God" striving for wholeness..."is an indication of incompleteness". Maybe we all just decided......as a whole.....that it is best if we just forget for a while.... and that we are in fact already complete...whole....just need to remember.
Why do you say..."We are cut off from the source when we are first incarnated". I don't think it possible to have ever been....or to ever be cut off from the source. I disagree with the idea of "free will". I think it is a major misunderstanding for many..... the idea that..... we alone can do anything outside the will of God.... ....that is precisely what "illusions" are. We are not Republican....Democrat....white....black....colored...rich...poor... man....woman....child....gay...straight...etc.. Those are just stories we make up. We assign ourselves.....and everyone else......identities...but none of them are real.... This idea of "free will" that people talk about is nothing more than their ability to make up stories..."illusions"...of what they are or what the world is.... the problems arise when they start believing their concoctions.
I guess "cut off" is not the right phrase. It is more of amnesia so that we are able to choose freely without knowledge of who we really are. In a sense we are saying the same things it sounds like, maybe with different words. The way you are describing it, yes, we cannot do anything outside the will of god, because we are god, and that is all there is. So in that respect, I think we are on the same page.
Since we're talking about Francis of Assisi, I presume he is saying one of two things (or both): 1) You are One with God and/or 2) If you are looking for God, look inside yourself, not outside
Nothing lasts forever. Change is inevitable. Without reading the books by Robert Monroe and Tom Campbell and getting a firm grasp of all that's behind their perspectives, one may not be inclined to believe unfamiliar concepts.
But what you said above does not address the comments below..... Your idea of..... "us all being pieces of God striving for wholeness" is just an opinion. Why do you insist that "books by Robert Monroe and Tom Campbell" would be anything more than opinions?
Perhaps, you're right, but we're talking about God here. Not only can God be and do whatever he likes... ...I've been told he is the master of making order out of chaos. Who knows, perhaps God is perfectly happy to let his creation run free and roll with whatever happens? It's not like we pose some sort of threat to God, and besides, if I were God and had all of eternity on my hands I think I'd find all that disorder all the more interesting. One of the joys of Man and Nature is their unpredictability. Predictability is boring.
