What are your thoughts on unions?

Discussion in 'Labor & Employment' started by BarleyPopGuy, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    Unions have done a lot of good for the middle class most if not all the work benefits we enjoy today came about because of union demands...even so there are still millions incompetent employers who still abuse, overwork and underpay their non union employees...

    is there dysfunction in some unions? yes just as there are in all workplaces union or not, there are idiots in control(which is the reason why unions began in the first place) ...but for the most part unions have done a lot of good in the workplace and for the quality of life we enjoy today..
     
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  2. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    There are lots of foreign car companies who have factories here with american workers.

    Do they count?
     
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  3. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    AMEN!:applause:
     
  4. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    So the fact that the US was the only industrial country in the world had nothing to do with it? It was all because of parasitic organizations?


    I notice there is nothing more recent than 40 years old posted there. An oversight maybe?

    At least you admit to the corruption of the unions.


    I read years ago that $3-5k of the price of a new big 3 car was legacy costs.

    Unskilled labor has no need of unions. Your example of tax law proves it. Those unions have some nothing for those workers.
     
  5. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    I never said the unions were corrupt. I was talking about a back fire.

    You need to walk in the shoes of an unskilled low paid worker someday. I doubt that you would last one day. But maybe you're special, eh?
     
  6. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    only industrialized country in the world??? I guess it's a safe assumption you've never ventured outside of the US...here's a bit of historic trivia for you( trivia for you, common knowledge for most people)the industrial revolution began in europe...
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
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  7. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    honda and toyota appear have different corporate employee relationship, the employees until now seem to be quite content to not be unionized....and that how's it should be, if the employees are treated fairly and respectfully they don't feel a need to unionize...
     
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  8. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    I guessing that you didnt realize that it took a few decades for Europe and Japan to recover from the ravages of war.
     
  9. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    What makes you think I haven't?
     
  10. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    With the decline in union power, jobs gets exported and everything you buy is made overseas. Thank Reagan and the Republicans for that.
     
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  11. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    so you've never been outside the US and you suck at history...germany and japan took a physical beating but the UK industry survived just fine as did most of western europe, Canada's industry was untouched, even Russia industrial capacity survived the war...you live in a mythical dream world of made up facts...
     
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  12. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    your opinions sound elitist.
     
  13. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to unions they get good pay. These companies try to compete with union wages, not lower them. It's called competition.
     
  14. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    Have to amend the contract to do that which is possible.
     
  15. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    I looked up comparative wages between unionized builders and Toyota employees, Toyota employees get $2 per hr less but they get profit sharing, $2 less is probably made up for by not needing to contribute to union dues....there are probably other intangibles we can't know, like work place atmosphere and management employee culture...

    no doubt competitive wages prevents unions from being established in Toyota
     
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  16. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    I agree that unions are still needed today. But not as they exist (as you've pointed out). The power of union leadership has led to greed and corruption, and none of it is benefiting the workers.
     
  17. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    And a person can quit without cause, any time they see fit. Sounds about equal, eh?

    What you are missing, is if someone is terminated 'without cause', the employer is then chargeable for the unemployment paid to that person, while they seek a new job. So for the amount of $$ paid in unemployment, an employer's state UI rate goes up.
     
  18. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    You do realize, everything you've listed there, is available in a basic employment contract between employer and employee, without the involvement of a third party who takes a fee?

    Unions had their day, and were important for what they did. Past tense. They provide nothing in todays world.
     
  19. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    So, today, employers "keep the rate of change of wages in sync with the rate of increase and decrease in the gross revenue of a business" you say. LOL!!! That would prevent wealth and income disparity going out of control.

    Try again.
     
  20. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever heard of the idea, hold on to your hat now, bonus based on performance? For those who actually put something into the job.

    Your statement basically says that entry level people, with no skills, no history of job performance, should be paid the same way as someone who has worked for years in an industry. You give that a try, and let me know how it works for you.

    They work, they prove themselves, and most will get raises. There is nothing that guarantees those with mediocre performance, should retain a position, even 'unions'.
     
  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but 1) I've never seen it anyplace where I've worked, and 2) it wouldn't keep wages moving with gross revenue.

    I have no idea how you could arrive at that interpretation. I see it as entirely untrue.

    I don't see your point. What is it?

    The notion of worker organization and representation being unnecessary (and trusting employers to be completely fair) in any capitalist economy is absurd. And the rise of worker advocacy proves it.
     
  22. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Bonuses paid for a particular specified period based on increase in sales or production, etc. If you've never encountered it, then perhaps you are in the wrong industry. The company I work for pays bonuses every 4 weeks. Doesn't take much to make one, but those who are mediocre, rarely do.

    Read your own post.
    The need for 'unions' at this point in time, is non-existent. Some apparently think that people cannot negotiate employment contracts without some third party being involved. There are laws that now protect workers, and it's very easy for a worker to have them enforced, if an employer tries to break or bend them.
    I believe that to be very untrue. You'll get any number of groups who feel the worker is being abused, but it doesn't carry much weight anymore.
     
  23. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    So you're telling me that your claim of there being no need for unions is your personal opinion. Ok, I knew that.
     
  24. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    My opinion, based on fact. You have yet to say or post anything factual to the contrary....
     
  25. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Sure, and MY opinion based on facts:
    Unions today as they are have been changed by law and by greed. Hence the tepid enthusiasm for them.

    They need to organize a-fresh, and the organization of them needs to be designed to keep members informed on all matters and have power to manage union leaders' pay. Many government restrictions need to be rejected and if necessary, a strike may be needed to oppose government regulations on them. NOBODY, -no person, no government, -NOBODY should determine the business and functioning of any union except union members.

    Wage contracts should keep the rate of change of wages in sync with the rate of increase and decrease in the gross revenue of a business. That should be a union principle and a requirement in contracts.
     

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