What constitutes a "brearable arm" as thet term is used with regard to the 2nd?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by TOG 6, Oct 13, 2017.

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Which classes of firearm do NOT qualify as "bearable arms" as the term is used w/ regard to the 2nd?

  1. Handguns

  2. Shotguns

  3. Rifles

  4. Semi-automatic rifles

  5. 'Assault weapons'

  6. Machineguns

  7. None of the above

  8. All of the above

  9. Other

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  1. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    DC v Heller:
    The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html

    Caetano v Massachussets:
    The Court has held that “the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding,”
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-10078_aplc.pdf

    Within the context of current jurisprudence, which class(es) of firearm(s) do NOT qualify as "bearable arms" as the term is used with regard to the 2nd and are therefore protected under the the US Constitution?

    Please explain your response.
     
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  2. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    If the founders envisioned the people to pose a legitimate military threat to an oppressive govt, or at least to be such a potential threat that the govt would take a "peoples rebellion" seriously, then the people are allowed whatever arms make them a force suitable to counter the forces of the govt.

    That means all man portable weapons including grenades, machine guns, Javelin, Stinger, etc. It also includes artillery and armour. It does not include aircraft carriers, nuclear/bio/chemical weapons, ICBM's, B-52's.

    Remember, in the 1700's and 1800's, private citizens owned cannon, mortars, and fully armed and crewed privateers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  3. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The above matter is especially difficult to provide an answer to, when one understands and accepts that military personnel have often been forced to improvise when standard issue equipment is particularly unsuitable for specific application. During world war one, trench warfare necessitated the creation of specialized equipment when long rifles and bayonets proved to be too cumbersome. Entrenching tools were pressed into service as weapons, and combat knives were made from whatever scraps of metal could be scavenged, as were tool handles, and what have come to be known as trench raiding clubs.
     
  4. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Under the Constitution in particular the "10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes"
    Since all American males are members of either the organized militia or the unorganized militia, to be in good standing and not derelict in being an American patriot, every male should own and be in possession of at least one military style rifle chambered for either the 7.62mm NATO (Winchester .308 ) cartridge or the 5.56mm NATO (Remington .223) cartridge.

    If not...you are a shitbird American.

     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  5. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    Me and my buddy came to an agreement, if you can carry it, it's legal. If you need a trailer etc, that's no go.
     
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  6. Empress

    Empress Well-Known Member

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    So you want retards, drunks, junkies, rapists, and murderers to be armed?
     
  7. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pretty sure there are laws and regulations in affect that... retards, drunks, junkies, rapists, can't be members of the unorganized militia.
     
  8. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    An " unorganized" militia is a contradiction in terms. There is no militia of any real kind and hasn't been one since the ACW, it's a right wing fantasy. Don't believe me? try arming yourself as these nimnuls are saying you can
     
  9. jgoins

    jgoins Well-Known Member

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    Or you can only afford a 9mm with which you can obtain a bigger one if needed.
     
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  10. jgoins

    jgoins Well-Known Member

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    Most of them already are armed.
     
  11. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Are they not already, even though such is illegal?
     
  12. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    The definition of bearable is: “able to be endured” or as I define the word in regard to arms, "anything that you can physically carry on your own, without the aid of a truck, tractor, wagon, or cart.”
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  13. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no power delegated to the United States by the Constitution to regulate any arms, regardless of their 'bearability'.

    The 10th amendment specifically requires those powers be reserved for the states, or the people.

    And so the question is moot. There is no subclass of arms to which the 2A is limited.
     
  14. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the division of weapons as it stands. Everything from sling shots to semi auto rifles, shotguns and handguns for the general population. All of that and everything greater for the military.
     
  15. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I certainly doubt that liberals want most of those members of their group punished who commit felonies.
     
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  16. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Well you can own them but lawfully using them off your own property are likely able to be restricted so I would say the whole list is fine, but the government has every right to say you cannot carry and use your 50 caliber sniper rifle off the property by firing it or be carried in a manner it could be used (stored and locked and such so as to travel with it would be fine otherwise you couldn't get one or move them about to owners). If you want to get technical since bearing a weapon and using a weapon are different things.
     
  17. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    Its not a good idea to drive around towing a loaded howitzer to the store. That should be illegal. I would need to own miles of property to use it.
     
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  18. jgoins

    jgoins Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't really matter the real problem is those on theft have a plan and ultimately it is to take all guns away from law abiding citizens by any means necessary and that are playing the long game.
     
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  19. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're just pissed off Prv. Ulyanov because you're just a freaking buck private in the unorganized militia while I'm a full bird colonel in the 1st Apacherat Rifle Brigade.

    The unorganized militia in America is real, it's the law.

    Each state has its own constitution, laws and regulations. In California if the unorganized militia were to be called into service, usually the County Sheriff will be in command of the unorganized militia.

    Under California law...the unorganized militia becomes the "Home Guard" when called into service.
    The above is still om the books until some liberal in the state legislature sees this post.


    There's even a freaking oath one has to take.
    Then there are the private unorganized militia's.
    Texas Light Foot Militia -> http://hendersonmilitia.webs.com/
    http://thelightfootmilitia.com/Portals/0/LFMS2014/LFMS2014.pdf
     
  20. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    I like the way you avoided the issue brought up in the OP - it took both great skill and cunning.
    Well done.
     
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  21. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They knew about muskets knives and swords... so this is what they were referring to.
     
  22. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    What does this mean for CNN and your cell phone conversations?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  23. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It means that the founding fathers did not consider a cell phone to be a bearable arm
     
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  24. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Which is not relevant to the current discussion of what does and does not constitute a bearable arm. Caetano changed everything when the united state supreme court held that tasers constitute bearable arms under the second amendment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  25. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That depends on how, or whether you interpret the constitution. Some people are quite fixated on the idea of FOUNDERS INTENT. For those who are committed to that idea, then the founders could only have intended the second to apply to weapons they knew about... and not rpgs or sub machine guns, or satchel nukes, or shoulder fired ani aircraft rockets
     

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