What democratic candidate would you vote for? Warren or Bernie?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by redeemer216, Oct 27, 2019.

?

Bernie or Warren?

  1. Bernie

    11 vote(s)
    55.0%
  2. Warren

    9 vote(s)
    45.0%
  1. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    Sanders is famous for being a bridge builder in Congress and is well respected. Folks that don't know how congress works like to **** on his lack of sponsored bills (as if the entirety of congress has a good record on that, they got the do nothing label for a reason) but the reality is he's among the most prolific lawmakers there, earning the nickname Amendment King for his ability to get everyone to agree to his proposals during debate and committee votes. He's only fiery in front of the camaras.
     
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  2. The Centrist

    The Centrist Well-Known Member

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    I would vote third party before either one. Both of them lean too far left for me.
     
  3. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    The White House has a lot more cameras than the Senate does.......
     
  4. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    Once you're in the WH, you don't need the votes anymore.
     
  5. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Of course you do. It's been a long time since the President hasn't been running for reelection his whole term in office.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  6. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but the poll question in this thread gave us only two choices: Dizzy Lizzy Warren, or, 'Father Time' Sanders :oldman: ....

    Yes, BUT -- consider, a lot of Boomers are in the same risk-averse 'boat'. Still, his big tax-cut accomplishment was worth about a plus-$1,000 to me. Good. Hooray. Thank you, President Trump. BUT ----

    Trump's constant hammering and bitching for interest rate CUTS by the Federal Reserve are costing me MULTIPLE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS because of the return of sh*tty interest rates on certificates-of-deposit! And the overriding question is -- why the hell do we, in the United States, need to be CUTTING interest rates at all...?! Trump tells us how super-wonderful our economy is doing, and it's no doubt that we have seen very large, inflationary price increases in everything from houses, to cars, to medicine, to dentistry -- you name it! We've got a record-high stock market; we've got the lowest unemployment rate in FIFTY YEARS; and, we've got no damned reason to be cutting interest rates in the United States now at ALL!

    Sure, EUROPE has its economic "teat in a wringer", but WE AIN'T EUROPE! So, why is Trump running with this big interest-cut 'jihad'...? Because, he wants to jamb more and more people into the already overvalued, risky stock market! And that's troubling to me for a lot of reasons....

    [​IMG]. "So, who doesn't love a CASINO...?!" :hiding: -- "Where is the exit door?"
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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  7. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    iow, same old same old for taxes, boo hoo crocodile tears flowin... we will never see true relief from any party nor administration because it will always be taken from us elsewhere, get over it...
     
  8. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I've been a rock-solid Conservative all my adult life -- but, soon we are going to see a situation where 70,000,000 Baby Boomers whose primary income source is Social Security and savings accounts in banks and credit unions will have some very different choices to consider -- and if they aren't already rich, those decisions may very well make Democrat voters out of them, perhaps for the first time in their lives....

    Trump offers everyone the 'thrill' of getting out of secure, government-protected investments and into the unreliable world of the stock market 'casinos'. The Democrats (like Dizzy Lizzy Warren) will be offering the same Boomers the first decent increases in their EARNED Social Security payouts they've seen in TEN YEARS. Do you see the very real possibility of a Warren victory now?

    And, the question of WHY Trump is so intent on crushing interest rates on savings accounts back down into the dirt goes unanswered.... Why is he deliberately trying so hard to piss-off everybody who has exercised personal responsibility by SAVING money for retirement -- especially after a horrific recession ten years ago that wiped so many Boomers out because of fraud and criminality in those same stock market casinos...?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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  9. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    and prolly bankrupt social security... besides, what makes you think warren will keep her promises, even if she tries she'll never get it passed (both dems & gop will either block it or find some other way to get it back through taxes, leaving you with even less take home money)... words are meaningless
     
  10. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Words are meaningless, except when they aren't.... And if Warren promised 70 million Boomers decent increases in cost-of-living increases in SS for the first time in a decade -- and then LIED about it -- she'd be hated and reviled for her entire presidency. We Boomers don't forget things like that! But from Trump? What do we see? "Yank your money out of S&L's, credit unions, and banks, and go gamble on the stock market -- because I'm gonna make sure you don't make damn dime in interest on your savings anymore... 'cause that's how they're screwing people in Europe!"

    Again, I can only hope that Trump wakes up. I know he's got an spurious impeachment fight on his hands right now, but if he comes up against Warren next summer, and she's promising what 70 million Boomers are wanting to hear -- but Trump's got nothing but every-day risk and the very real possibility of loss of principal in the stock market casinos, who do you think is going to come out on top...? Boomers vote! We always have! And Boomers especially have been screwed on Social Security COLA's for the last ten years!

    Oh, BTW, decent raises in SS benefits would not 'bankrupt' Social Security. Since 1975, COLA's have been provided to those who have EARNED the benefits: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/colasummary.html . But, for the last ten years, somebody has not taken any notice of the REAL increases in the cost-of-living -- especially in areas that affect people when they get old!
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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  11. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    That's more about raising money than getting votes. Incumbent advantage means you can stay in office as long as your base stays loyal. It's fending off Primary challenges and raising money for donors (neither of which are likely between his popularity and independence from the donor class) that leads to eternal campaigning.
     
  12. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    ss is nothing more than a ponzi scheme, and when all of us boomers (yes, i'm one of them) begin collecting, it'll put an enormous strain on the scheme (system). btw, ss isnt a bank account collecting interest, nor a retirement fund, it is dependent upon millions of workers paying in a piddence every week... only to have 70 million stop paying in & begin drawing out, coupled with universal healthcare... good luck with that scenario
     
  13. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I'm not advocating that we Boomers all run out and vote for Warren! I'm trying to point out that a promise to measurably increase SS benefits to retirees for the first time in TEN YEARS is going to resonate very positively with MOST Boomers. Why would you disagree?

    Do you think millions of Boomers who were badly hurt in the last 'Great Recession' are warm to suggestions that they should take what remaining wealth they have and go play with the stock market, again...? People who lost their asses when they were 55 years old aren't going to want to do it again when they're 65 years old, Blaster.... And that's why interest rates on savings accounts, and, separately, Social Security payouts, are so very important.

    Trump is all about "betting on the come" ( http://www.poker-vibe.com/poker/terms/come-bet/ ), but Warren is offering a promise of more money in your hand, safe and secure, to pay for all the crap that has skyrocketed in price in the last ten years -- but which somehow went unnoticed by the 'experts' who calculate how much the cost-of-living actually is! :eekeyes:

    If Warren lies (always a possibility in any politician), then she's going to be hated and 'raked over the coals' by every one of those seventy million Boomers, et al. But we already have seen what Trump has offered: a lukewarm tax cut for most people, a horribly overvalued stock market, and a servile central bank which fuels a 'fraud-balloon' economy with imaginary money.

    Who do I want for president instead? A synthesis of John F. Kennedy, AND, Ronald Reagan. I'm NOT going to get it. But we'd better look economic realities squarely in the face and understand that whether it's really a "Ponzi scheme" or not, Social Security has become a bedrock economic cornerstone in our country for well over EIGHTY YEARS. Anybody who downplays the significance of SS -- or the people who have EARNED it -- is going to commit political suicide!
     
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  14. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    :applause:
     
  15. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    because i've never believed anything any politician says, it's usually fluff...

    i fully understand that, however i'm astute enough to know that warren is full of hot air, so i won't be holding my breathe over her 'promised land' bs...

    if? that's a given, as with any campaign promises. do some come to fruition, yes, but only if the house & senate comply, which i don't see that happening any time soon. that said, it could very well happen AND if it does, you can rest assured that there's new taxes coming through the backdoor, negating any increase in benefits...

    i truly don't care who becomes prez (as hard as that is to believe), i'm more interested in seeing a common, fair & equal representation in the house, senate & judiciary. my priorities lay with voting for the least likely to screw us over, in '16 that was trump and from what we've witnessed of the dnc these past 4 years, i wouldn't trust any up-n-comer because the established dnc'ers will make puppets of them (gabbard for sure. warren's already a mini dnc puppet)
     
  16. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wouldn't vote for either. Hickenlooper was my first choice, but he withdrew. Now it's Klobuchar and Gabbard. But I realize there is no hope. I voted third party in 2016 against both Clinton and Trump and will do so again if the general is a match up between Warren and or Sanders vs. Trump.
     
  17. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Sanders is a straight-up person, but I'm not really convinced his plans will work or that he won't face a fierce and overwhelming backlash. Not that Warren won't face a backlash, but I think she's slightly more realistic and appeals more to the centrists who dislike Trump. To be clear, I don't really like either one of them enough to point to anything to hold up as a good plan.

    My thing is that the current president is all that I consider vile and disgusting in humans. In 2016 I threw it away with a sarcastic vote for Ralph Nader because I could not bring myself to vote for Clinton. Of course, I never expected the results of that election, but...lesson learned. I can no longer believe I will vote for a candidate, but rather that I must vote against one. In that sense, I see Warren as the best choice for that.

    But I was incredibly wrong once before...
     
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  18. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="Blaster3, post: 1071113349, member: 78949"
    i truly don't care who becomes prez (as hard as that is to believe), i'm more interested in seeing a common, fair & equal representation in the house, senate & judiciary. my priorities lay with voting for the least likely to screw us over, in '16 that was trump and from what we've witnessed of the dnc these past 4 years, i wouldn't trust any up-n-comer because the established dnc'ers will make puppets of them (gabbard for sure. warren's already a mini dnc puppet)[/QUOTE]

    I share much of your skepticism, and, starting with Lyndon Johnson, I've watched one rotten, lying president after another stab working American citizen taxpayers in the back. Even my 'hero', Ronald Reagan, approved the measure to tax Social Security benefits as INCOME in 1984 -- and that never should have been allowed to happen.

    It's impossible now to take a 'long-range' view of politics in this country anymore. I've become myopic out of necessity, and as close-minded and stupid as that is, it works... more or less.

    All I can say is this, Blaster (and you might agree with me) -- in 2020, the candidate that promises the most FREE STUFF to people is the one who's going to be elected! It may be EARNED 'free stuff' (like a decent increase in Social Security benefits for the first time in 10 years), or, it may be free 'socialized-medicine', free college, free damn near everything-else -- plus, a nice, fat, effortless job working for the government.

    Truth is, during the 'Great Recession', the 'common people' took a horrific SCREWING, and we've never gotten over it. At the same time, we've seen at least one new generation come into voting-age that craves Socialism -- the Millennials! And the 'Gen Z' generation is reputed to be even worse! Long story short -- Trump better wake up and see the impressive welfare weaponry that socialistic Democrats are assembling in their political arsenals, or else he's a GONER.

    Afterthought: How wonderful is Trump's 'tax cut' to the 50% of Americans who don't pay any federal taxes in the first place...?! :cynic:
     
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  19. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    That all depends what state you live in. In Oregon, I voted for Stein as a complete protest vote, but if you added every single vote for every third party candidate including libertarians and constitutional party votes,, and every write- in ballot no matter who's name was in there, and threw them in the Trump pile, you still would have had a Clinton victory over Trump, so deep blue is this state now. Now I would not dare do the same thing in Michigan or Florida.

    But what really may matter, is whether the never Trumper independent, soft Dems, and independents
    can be persuaded to become never McConnells and Never Kevin McCarthys when they vote on their Congressmen. If Dems can get the young people to show up and those poorer Americans and people of color that tend to be fickle about showing up to vote Dem down ballot, and they get Never Trumper moderates, republicans and independents to do the same, there will be one hell of a mandate.

    That's a big if.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  20. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about a joint ticket, Bernie on top or Warren? Actually, Waren on top of Bernie would be just as attractive :buggered:
     
  21. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    You wanted HICKENLOOPER?! :puke: The Democrat ex-governor here in Colorado who single-handedly took convicted mass-murderer, Nathan Dunlap, indefinitely OFF of death-row?!

    Please, do vote 'third-party' again and waste your vote again if you would really choose someone as utterly stinking, damned worthless as John Hickenlooper, the pride of every hyperliberal Democrat in Denver/Boulder....

    [​IMG]. "Thanks, Johnny! For a white boy, you be's OK...." :hippie:
     
  22. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    depends upon the backlash of this impending witch hunt they refer to as impeachment. if there is solid irrefutable evidence of crime & the senate refuses to convict, the gop is doomed... on the otherhand, if it's a giant nothin burger, trumps in and the dnc will be doomed. eitherway, long term looks bleek, short term worse
     
  23. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Just stop! Some things just can't be "unseen". :(
     
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  24. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ha ha ha :D
     
  25. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Yang of course.
     

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