What do you expect from immigrants?

Discussion in 'History and Culture' started by Margot2, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    You would be wrong. Think it through.
     
  2. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If they are illegal....I'd expect them to leave.
     
  3. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    ...capitalism and increasing the size of our markets and market based participation.

    We should have no illegal problem with a naturalization clause, and all foreign nationals could be processed and issued a federal id. for civil purposes.

    Tourism is the first, second, or third largest employer in twenty-nine States.

    Capitalism; What is That, Sayeth the Right Wing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Well, it was once the norm to loose the "native language" within a generation. But that is really no longer the case.

    Prior to the last 50 years or so, emigrating to the US generally meant cutting yourself off from your "home country". And there were few if any sources for your native language outside of the ghettos of large cities. Somebody from China could move to San Francisco and get by their entire lives (and their children also) and never learn English.

    But if they move to say Boise or El Paso? Nope, they had to assimilate or die.

    And in those children and grandchildren, the language skills were generally stilted. They generally were the children of parents who left the home country young, and their language froze when they left for the US. Essentially the language continued to evolve and adapt, but they remained frozen in time, their skills locked to when they moved.

    This is why the Japanese are able to identify Issei, Nisei, Sansei, Yonsei, and Gosei. Even if their parents continued to teach their children their native language, it remained the language as used 20, 30, even 50 years or more out of date. And it generally devolved into more and more simple words and phrases.

    Now with the Internet this is not as big of a deal. But as an equivalent, imagine having somebody walk up to you and try to talk as if they had gone to sleep the night before in 1973.

    Hey, can you do me a solid? The real skinny is that I was booking it from the man and dumped my dime, but it was just a fake-out. So can ya split me a Hamilton till payday?

    Now imagine that was you, and "your" language had an entire 2 generations of language lexicon added. Concepts your parents and grandparents never taught you. Web Page, Search Engine, Cell Service, Anti-Lock Brake, GPS, and hundreds of thousands more.

    This is why in WWII so many 1st and 2nd generation spies from the US to Europe and Asia were caught. Unless they were in place prior to and had extensive experience in the country prior to the war, they stuck out like sore thumbs. Their parents moved generally at the turn of the century, and their own language showed it with antiquated terms and phrases.

    Most of us do not realize the way our language changes around us.

    [​IMG]

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    If somebody was to remake the classic Fred Astaire - Ginger Rogers movie "The Gay Divorcee" today, most would think it is about somebody who finally came out of the closet. And I am still old enough to remember when somebody told you that you were "Discriminating", that was a complement!

    [​IMG]

    But it is impossible to see these images from a few decades ago and not see them in the modern meanings.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  5. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    That is not the case. Wherever there were ethnic communities there would be newspapers, associations, social clubs, etc. involving the heritage language of the ethnic group.
     
  6. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    This is your imagination.
     
  7. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I "expect" immigrants into this country to assimilate culturally and learn English if they want to be welcomed. YOU chose to come her for a reason so don't try to bend it into what you left.
     
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  8. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    They do.
     
  9. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not according to my wife and the Hospital she works in.
     
  10. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Illogical
     
  11. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you realize that EVERY major hospital in the U.S MUST supply an interpreter for those who do not speak English, That many are there for free treatment for problems they themselves create, that You and I pay for it?
     
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  12. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    abolish our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror they only create more refugees for the right wing to complain about.
     
  13. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Your conclusion is illogical nonetheless.
     
  14. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How So?
     
  15. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    ...the law of large numbers in regard to our market economy.
     
  16. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Given that context, she is all but assured of interacting almost exclusively with The most recent arrivals, or those who circumstances may tend to delete a simulation. She is not likely to deal with or take note of those of the second or third generation who are fully assimilated who speak English who dress and behave exactly like Americans do and who would not raise notice. And that’s how it always goes, but it is a logical to take one particular sample and judge every immigrant according to that. Bring that family back in another generation when the children of those people in the emergency room I know adults with better jobs and health insurance who dress and move and sound just like Americans and she will very likely not even take note of their race. Do you understand what I mean?
     
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  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, and I agree...yet that does not change the here and now or make my position illogical.
     
  18. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    The conclusion you reached was illogical.
     
  19. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay....it is to you.
     
  20. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Logic doesn't differ from person to person.
     
  21. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not. And as I said, they are cut off and their language does not develop.

    Dude, my wife is from Argentina. And it is only in the last few years that she has been able to watch programs from her home country (which she left in 1979). And one thing that struck her was that a lot of phrases and words that are in use now are completely new to her. And yes, in the last 40 years she has had a lot of contact with other Argentinians in the US. Who like her, were also cut off from the country they came from.

    And a few years ago her sister returned to Argentina for the first time since they all left. One of the things she said when she got back was that a lot of people thought she sounded "quaint". A lot of words and phrases she used are long out of use there. Communicating with fellow expatiates does not solve these problems, it can even exacerbate them since you can pick up even older phrases and word usage.

    Take somebody from 1979 US, and throw them into another country with little to no access to American TV or movies. And the only people from the US they generally talk to would be others who left at around the same time (or even older). Then wonder why people look at you funny because you ask about going to a disco. Or go get a new tracksuit and sit at home watching the boob tube.

    Heritage when separated from your home country leads to stagnation in language. As I have said so often (and you insist on ignoring) is that once cut off, the language skills of such people stagnate at the time they left. They do not pick up the new words and phrases that everybody else does in following years.

    Unless they are able to get enough contemporary content from where they came from. In the US, the dominant Spanish culture by far is from Mexico. And the phrases and words in Mexico are different than those in Argentina. Yea, she can watch a telenovela, and her Spanish today is far more contemporary Mexican than Castilian. But it is not the same as if she returned home.

    Even celebrities like Paul McCartney have commented at how their long exposure to "American English" sometimes left them feeling cut-off when they returned home. Why you think otherwise is beyond me.
     
  22. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Your imagined point has been invalid since the invention of the radio. And you seem to think that once an immigrant arrives no other immigrants from that same country ever follow. You are simply mistaken in this.
     
  23. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes. There are so many who live in the US from South Africa (for example) who listen to programs from South Africa on the radio.

    Goodbye.
     
  24. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there are. You are mistaking your imagination for data.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does. When BOTH parents speak a common language (other than the local one) in the home, the children will be bi-lingual. They cannot NOT be. It's literally impossible.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019

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