What does Britain want? The art of negotiation.

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Baff, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

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    PESCO will prevent that.
     
  2. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    If you want to be ruled by Bliar what's wrong with Trump? You'd be safe from the truth with either, and Mrs Thatcher could hardly carry on her war with Britain and all it ever stood for, even to please the Shade of Hitler.
     
  3. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

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    It's not about the Eurofighter but its successor. Gripen, Rafale and Eurofighter will not last forever.
     
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  4. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    That's true personally I'd go for the American kit...look at their lead times as opposed to the European apporach
     
  5. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

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    They don't sell the F-22 at all and the F-35 is quite expensive and the abilities are at least questionable.
     
  6. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    I think we're tuning into plane spotters...which is marginaly less nerdy and pathetic than trainspotters...we should let the adults continue...;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  7. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    We promised to pay zero pounds.
    You are welcome to it.
     
  8. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Because you don't use them.
    You don't have an aircraft carrier or fight in any wars. So all you need is one simple fighter looking aircraft for parades.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  9. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    The fee is 39 billion.
     
  10. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Not for lack of trying! lol.
    Hahahaha.
     
  11. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What, in addition to NATO? What are your 'leaders' planning, a global military takeover?? It's yet another stratum of bureaucracy - in other words a 'jobs for friends and family' idea to rip off European taxpayers of even more of their hard-earned money. I predict your 'lords and masters' are going to go so far that they'll eventually kill the goose that laid the golden egg.; then when the **** hits the fan, they'll take the money and run to warmer climes.
     
  12. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

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    PESCO is about consolidating the EU forces which will give us more fighting power for the same money.
     
  13. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I remember the occasion - I think it was during the Bosnian war - when ammunition (which was only manufactured in Belgium) was withheld from coalition forces because the member states of the EU couldn't agree between them whether or not to supply it. Attempting to get common agreement from 27 countries all with their differing opinions, interests, and loyalties, doesn't work, nor will it ever work.
     
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  14. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

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    To prevent such matters PESCO is formed. EU-27 has agreed on many questions and without UK restricting it will be far easier.
     
  15. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well good luck. So long as we're out of the fiasco you can all do what you like.
     
  16. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    But they haven't agreed what its for or how it will work. All that ever happens with the EU forces is that they keep getting bailed out by the Brits and the Yanks!!
    The only reason that this has come to the front now is that all of sudden the Yanks...Trump...is out of favour with the EU and that they are now uncertain as to whether the yanks will haul them out of the crap again.
    Cerb was right in that this is just Eurobabble political horsepucky its a perception of reality being expounded by bureacrats who don't have to get involved in actually trying to make it function with any degree of meaning other than its a Military Co-operation agreement which they already do anyway! Its playing with words in the most cynical fashion.
    There is already a military co-operation agreement its called NATO!

    Look at the fiasco the Germans got themselves in the other day... they found out that the Leopard tanks they sold to Turkey were actually being used in military operations!! Whoa... tanks going to war....Mein Gott!! If the Germans get all steamed up about their tanks actually doing what they designed them to do how do you think this co-operation agreement will work IF... and that's a big IF Germans ever had to go to war with them and actually fight in them!!!
     
  17. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

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    The UK prevented a military cooperation on EU level for years and the members had to step back on bilateral agreements for military cooperations.

    In military questions is our government incompetent and they are living in a pink unicorn lala land. An EU high command can't worsen the situation.
    The vast majority of the Leos were more or less a gift, we had more than 2000 in 1990 and giving them away was less expensive than scrapping.
     
  18. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Okay, let me put it another way. This is a fictious bargining ploy proposed to create a fictious EU bargaining position. For example, EU says that they are going to create pink unicorns so that they can make magic fairies and if you, Britain, want to play with our magic fairies then you have to pay for our unicorns! The premise being that they think we will immidiately role over and want to be a part of the unicorn breeding program. But, and heres' the kicker.... there is no such thing as pink unicorns and as for magic fairies well....
    This is a response designed to create a stir in the anti-Brexit camp. All of a sudden there is this mention of a fictious Euro-Army on the table and its dangled there as a bargaining chip and we, the Brits, have to be a part of it because it sounds good on paper. But the trouble is..... its bollocks!!
    Its been talked of for decades and decades and never once has any serious effort gone into it...until now....I wonder why.....hmmmm

    As I kept saying there is a milti-nation military agreement in place....NATO...and its charter remains unchanged....inspite of and irrespective of Brexit or Barnier's or Junker's bullshit blustering from the turrets of Brussels the NATO charter remains the same.

    You mentioned in an earlier post ......
    This figure is also a fraud... you are being conned.... this figure represents (albeit less than it should be) the NATO contribution required by the treaty. Which countries maintain the required 2% of GDP contribution to NATO? lets have a little peek shall we.....
    [​IMG]

    Britain, Greece, Estonia and Poland are the only four of the 28 members to have signed up to the spending target. So are they implying that on top of the NATO contributions the EU is going to pay an additional EUR200Billion....yeah of course they are!!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  19. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

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    NATO contributions:
    [​IMG]

    The 2% of GDP is an agreement to spend it minimum for defences by 2024. The 200 billions of the EU isn't additional, it's included.
     
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  20. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    That graffic is the amount that is paid to NATO as an organisation for admin/expenditure etc... not the 2% spending commitment under the treaty
    https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_67655.htm?selectedLocale=en

    This is the bit you should be looking at....
     
  21. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I want Swexit.

    More support from Brexit in getting us out and intensive courses in public speaking so that we can contirubte a Farage of our own.
     
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