What does the Nobel Prize selection this year mean?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    History teaches us that this is how some of the greatest empires have fallen: short-sighted, narrow-minded leaders don't appreciate the value of Science and Education. And they start slowly lagging behind.

    Could it be our turn?
     
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  2. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    They gave it to him in order to help persuade him not to start any new wars. And instead make every effort to end the ones we were in. It didn't accomplish everything, but it turned out alright.
     
  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh? You mean like if somebody were to say, for example, that to pass an education tax on guns they need to stop focusing on banning guns?

    You mean because the NRA hasn't ordered their paid lackeys in Congress to oppose it yet?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  4. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    So, why does one Nobel peace prize to Obama, which I agree was not deserved, make all other Science Nobel prizes meaningless? Would you suggest that the Chem., Phys, and Physiology Nobel laureates this year did not deserve their prizes? Based on what evidence.
     
  5. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    The nobel prize is still around? Its been so politicized (note your post) and discredited that a rational person would think it had been abolished.
     
  6. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    "....maximize the potential of all public school students...." Fail right there. Now, if you had posted "its in the nations best interests to maximize peoples education"..... Education and public schools don't seem to go together very well.
     
  7. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, because it was Democrats who got us an anti-Public-Education Secretary of Education.

    Don't be ridiculous. Republicans have been bargaining down the budget for Education for decades. Rendering Federal Agencies that deal with Education less effective.
     
  8. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you can tell us how awarding the Nobel prize in Chemistry to Richard Henderson was politicized and, thus discredited?
     
  9. Vet1966

    Vet1966 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not trying to knock anyone who won a Nobel Prize - but isn't this the same group that awarded Obama the Peace Price about 8 years ago.

    Such an award tells me the Nobel people are nothing more than a bunch of hacks using the Nobel as a cover to give money to their favorite colleges
     
  10. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    The nobel prize committee has been discredited since it awarded Rigoberta Menchu the peace prize in 1992 for her book of lies. Giving obama the peace prize just to make a political statement was the final straw. Prizes in economics and literature are also politicized. There are also controversies over prizes in the hard sciences, but its harder to track down the reason for these issues - the politics of the peace, economic, and literature prizes are often obvious, chemistry and physics not so much.

    Peace, economics, literature and clearly politicized. All others are tarnished by association at best.

    Its like the NFL. Some of the players and teams have ruined the entire league, their corruption has leaked into the entire operation and tarnished even the apolitical players.
     
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  11. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If it were not for American universities, Iran couldn't build their missiles and nuclear bombs. Literally, now American universities give preferential admission to students of foreign countries so that other countries industries and military can compete with the USA - financed by the American taxpayer.
     
  12. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Does the Nobel prize selection committee make mistakes? Sure it can. The Nobel prize for the DNA double helix, for example, was given to Watson and Crick, while Rosalind Franklin should have been included. It was later speculated that this was caused by male dominance of the Sciences. Making mistakes or omissions is part of such a high-stakes game, in which everyone has an opinion.

    For most Nobel laureates, however, it is unquestionable that they deserve the prize for their accomplishments. Most of their peers agree most of the time (not always). To say that the prize is discredited is humbug.

    However, since you are such an expert, maybe you can tell me who should have won this year's Chem. prize rather than Frank, Henderson and Dubochet?

    Maybe you can also tell the impact of the achievements the prize was given for?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  13. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    So according to the OP, the fact that there are smart people who are American means that the overall education system we have isn't flawed. That's like saying that because thee are SOME law abiding people who are Americans, there is no crime in the US.
     
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  14. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you let go of your prejudices, perhaps you'd be able to see the difference between a recommendation and a false dichotomy.

    Nice straw man argument. Do you claim to understand that one as well?
     
  15. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    You are looking at a tree and ignoring the rot in the forest.

    I'll go back to the NFL analogy. There are great players in the NFL, almost every player is a superb athlete. But they are all tarnished by the foolish antics of a few teams and players and the NFL owners. The Raiders threw a game because Carr did not kneel, the next game they played games again and Carr was seriously injured - now people question all less than perfect plays, people look at the NFL through the lens of politics.

    The same with the nobel committee. Many awardees are great scientists and writers and philosophers, but enough are fools and enough awards have been given based on politics and foolishness to tarnish the entire system.
     
  16. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    You need to read the posts.

    Education is far more than just the public school system. And by its performance the public school system is not such a great system to be touting.
     
  17. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, as amply illustrated in here by our more ignorant posters.

    I previously thought as you do, but no more. MANY people who live in better school districts are already hanging by their fingernails onto the financial cliff caused by the higher school taxes and can afford no more. I would prefer that these people, who have shown ability, responsibility, and commitment to the proper rearing of their own children actually get the reward of seeing that their own children benefit educationally from their efforts. If their tax money is siphoned off to enhance the educations of the children of parents who lack the same attributes, MANY will not be able to afford the resultant taxes to continue to provide their own children with as good an education. IMO the entire society would suffer from this.

    If you want more money to go to schools in poorer districts, those districts could easily afford it if the money in them devoted to drugs was instead funneled to the schools. Of course that will not happen, because the adults in them hate anyone in authority, including teachers, and teach this attitude to their young.

    I do believe in target schools and vouchers for exceptional students, which IMO it would be OK to assist from income taxes, not property taxes. I would also like to add that I have seen some excellent work being done in poorer districts by exceptional teachers despite the poverty and low average IQs.

    More wealthy school districts could be paired up with less wealthy ones and teachers from the poorer schools could be invited to trainings given
    in the wealthier districts; also educational materials like textbooks and computers could be donated to them rather than being discarded.

    There is no point giving homework and sending a spanking new hundred-dollar textbook into a disorganized household run by misfits and drug addicts. There is usually no safe spot to keep a book in or even do homework, since Mom's boyfriends occupy the living room and younger siblings like to tear up paper. I'm specifically thinking about the households of the 70% of blacks and 30% of whites presently being born to single females eager to go on that free welfare ride.

    Frankly. we should be putting the money into birth control ; irresponsibility and stupidity of the general population is the sorry result of poor public policy, not a lack of funds.
     
  18. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    I would not crow too much if I were you

    On international tests US students still come up last or nearly last in math and science

    But its nice to know there are a few good apples still in the barrel
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  19. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    LOL@Climate Science
     
  20. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There remains simply no doubt that Obama getting the prize for NOTHING cheapened it for the people that should get and have gotten the prize.
     
  21. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    America buys the best foreign minds it can :dual: The American Joachim Frank was born in Germany (Chemistry) & Rainer Weiss(Physics) also German born. Move them into the foreign category with your other two chemists and America loses 4-2
     
  22. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's not the problem. The problem is when I do read those posts and post a comment which ticks off immature individuals who have a false sense of worth....a sense they know to be false hence their reaction.
     
  23. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Disagreed on the spin. However, clearly many foreigners come to live "the American Dream" of their own free will. Sure, in the past some were driven out of their own countries, but their choice to come to America and not Britain, Canada or anywhere else was their choice.
     
  24. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you think these two Germans were driven out of their country?
     
  25. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What in my statement "clearly many foreigners come to live "the American Dream" of their own free will" makes you think that's what I said?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
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