What drives those of Faith to ignore Scientific Facts?

A true believer is someone who IS going to Heaven, irrespective of his or her belief as to his or her destiny.

How should I know?

 

I call it blind faith. The exalted ones never demanded blind obedience. But their messages are way above the head of most of us. So later, some less exalted followers preached by surrounding the core message with magic and mystery to gain prestige for the message/them selves. We call this religion.

Pride is based on fear. Many followers, to counter their feeling of inadequacy, out of pride, hold onto the dogmas. This makes them feel superior. A sound religion aims to make us humble. But the blind followers acquire pride out of it. Do you not remember, the incidence of a man praying God, saying how virtuous he was, and the next man asking God's forgiveness for his sins, and Jesus pronouncing the second prayer better? Our desires make us sin, and as long as we are alive we have desires. Humble one gets forgiven for his sins, but pride adds to the sins.

 

And again you prove my point for me. "When serious testing and review fails to find a way in which they are false", the problem is what do you consider serious testing and review. I would consider that the climate models would be repeatable...they are not due to data manipulation. When none of the 28 different climate models agree when using the same datasets, something is wrong with the science.

Also theories are not the be all end all... There is a theory of wormholes, or what some call the Einstein-Rosenberg Bridge, it is currently an accepted theory, yet it is theoretical because one has never been found. So explain how this is settled science. I have a real problem with science that threatens to prosecute those that question, that leads me to believe it is more about the money, than the science.

 

I did not post the OP. If I had, it would have read:
What drives those of Faith to ignore Scientific Evidence?

Now, how about going back to post #195 and discuss what I posted that I addressed to you.

 

Are you talking about this, I already replied...both the NOAA and the IPCC scientist have admitted that their models cannot account for cloud cover. Satellites cannot penetrate and give accurate readings through cloud cover.

Common sense tells you that it is cooler in the shade than in direct sunlight...this is repeatable, verifiable and can be measured. Yet all the statistical models cannot account for this, and the models cannot agree with each other.

 

Of course, scientists disagree with your "not repeatable" claim. In fact, what they see is numerous approaches reaching the same general conclusion - that human activity is the primary cause of change right now. In particular, scientists are saying that the quality models are telling the same general story. As mentioned before, there may be differences in details. Nobody is claiming it is all figured out. But, they ARE agreeing that humans are the primary agent of change and that what we will continue to discover in the details is seriously unlikely to change that.

The "manipulation" thing is a little strange, in that scientists are paid to manipulate data. That is what they do. There isn't any other way to proceed. Maybe you are referring to the stories of what I'll call illegitimate methodology. But, those stories have regularly been debunked, and it's essentially impossible to create a conspiracy when independent groups all across the planet are involved.


Yes, I was going to bring up the issue you bring up when you mention worm holes, but cut it for space.

Worm holes, string theory, etc., are part of "theoretical physics", which is a branch where the ideas are beyond the capability of modern science to perform any actual tests of the real world.

Biology, climatology, experimental physics, and the rest of experimental science follow the rigors of being strictly held to what can be tested. Theories don't come about without rigorous testing and review, and usually theories need to be capable of helping scientists advance their field by being found through experience to be reliable tools in furthering science. So, for example, gravitational waves were predicted by Einstein's theories and the recent detection of those waves was a confirmation of Einstein as well as an advance in exploration of our universe.

CERN is interesting, as Higgs fields were postulated by theoretical physicists. By building the largest most complicated machine man has ever built, experimentalists were able to test that idea and found evidence to bring Higgs fields into what physicists call "physics" rather than the sometimes wild and crazy world of theoretical physics. Physicists see a very real divide in these two approaches.

 

An enormous percentage of deeply religious people seem to be offended by the idea
of a Creator....... learning..... evolving..... and getting better and better at creating other life forms.

But..... the evolution of intelligence in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.......
could bring a level of Shalom between the religious and scientific communities.

On one level I guess they don't like the idea of G-d giving them genuine freedom of choice that
implies that we create the future utopia by our choices...... rather than it gets done
entirely for us.


Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?

 

I think your question may get more mileage, and become a bit more probing, if it is restated as follows:

How did intelligence emerge, from matter, from energy, from both, from something else?

 

For most religious fundamentalists they ignore science because they take the bible to be literal. That means anything that contradicts the literal translation of the bible has to be a hoax.

 

Good point!

I do like that even better!

 

I guess that does not help.


http://www.space.com/33005-where-is-the-universes-edge-op-ed.html

 

Again...... extremely well said Ashwin Poonawal!

I would love to get your reaction to this other discussion;

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...have-the-potential-to-save-this-world.484728/

Five paragraphs that have the potential to save this world!

 

The time is coming when the three Abrahamic religions will realize that Ezekiel 37 is not only true......
but is not merely a one time event.......
but instead happens again and again and again.......
and fits perfectly with the new Multiverse Theory that is being worked on
by a poster on this forum.

The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/210956/belief-creationist-view-humans-new-low.aspx

I would not exactly call 38% of those who believe man was popped into existance in his current form a "small minority" it is a minority but still that is a lot of people in the USA who ignore science which to me is frightening.

 

I am always reluctant to engage into religious and spiritual discussions, for fear of hurting others' pride. I have taken pain to avoid that in my following write-up, aimed to carry out your wish; I hope I have succeeded.

The teachings of the Masters are aimed at helping seekers find happiness within their own minds. This means that a sound religion is meant to be an endeavor between you and your self, it is strictly personal, and has nothing to do with trying to change the world.

The light of the exalted ones did spread wide and far. But the way I see it, it is like a bush catching fire. Whether the neighboring bushes will catch fire or not depends on how dry or wet they are, and how distant they are from the burning bush. Our greed and pride keep us from receiving the fire of wisdom. The wise ones never had the ambition to change the world; they only ignited the hearts of the ones who came to them with open mind to receive the fire. This was not based on ambition, but compassion. The only ambition they ever entertained was to achieve wisdom for themselves. Others learning from them was only incidental. The ambition to reform the world is based on pride; to achieve glory.

The wisdom comes to those who shed their pride of being smart and accept the fact that they are ignorant. The one who thinks he knows will not learn.

Words are a very poor vehicle of learning/teaching. Only when they click with an image in your mind, you learn. The same words associate with different images in different minds. You can see this more vividly in dealing with different cultures. This is what drags international negotiations for weeks and months. It is the vibration/aura of the teacher that makes his words penetrate the hearts of seekers. We see this on lower levels often around us. We feel the sincerity or falsity of the speakers; we can feel their depth of convictions about their opinions. Otherwise, by reading the words of Jesus, we could be acquiring the same depth of wisdom that the apostles did.

This brings us to the next concept. Brain has a limited ability to reason, to discern. Our deep mind – the heart knows many more dimensions of life. Some times when we are baffled by a situation, we sleep on the problem (we introspect), and the right answer pops up in our mind out of nowhere. Some people are more intuitive that others. This comes from deeper awareness of one’s own mind. This is the reason, why we like to choose leaders who have deeper visions into the reality.

Introspection increases self awareness. As clarity of mind increases we find more correct answers. The things that use to bother us in childhood seem unimportant as we grow up. The lords of wisdom reached extreme clarity of mind, and the road to happiness became quite clear to them.

The intensity of introspection depends on the existing self awareness. With each step forward, the intensity increases. The mind slowly becomes more proficient in understanding itself. This process needs to stay on a practical level. If a 2nd grade student tries to learn calculus, he will acquire garbled concepts. We must climb the ladder of mind’s logic step by step. People who rush to the ultimate wisdom wind up in dangerous realms. This is how cults are founded. The pride of having become enlightened creates destruction. Pride is an enemy of wisdom. Pride is based on the fear of not being as big as would like to be. On the other side, self awareness is strength/faith. Pride is the feeling of shortage, while wisdom brings the feeling of fulfillment.

We see all around us, that all things happen because of propelling causes, and in turn they become causes of other events. This is logic. Faith is not blind; it is the deep logic of deep mind. Keep the chain of logic unbroken. Do not build the pyramid of logic hollow.

Being partially ignorant, we do not know when we will reach the ultimate goal. The crest of our mountain is shrouded in our passions. All we can do is to keep climbing step by step. But with each step-up our happiness increases many fold. When the journey is so beautiful (it keeps increasing my happiness), who cares about the destiny? In our non-enlightened condition, we do not see the truth clearly. Our perspective is colored by our passions. The only truth we are allowed to see clearly is kindness/compassion. This one tool is available even to most ignorant ones. Remember, Jesus said, “Love thy neighbor, and love thy enemy”? If we can learn to love even our enemies, our mind gets filled with love. We become what we feel. That is why an angry person creates an angry world around him, and the world of a caring person cares for him. Life is like a mirror; life hates the hater, and cheats the cheater; a violent person lives in fear. This brings us to, “Do unto others, as you would have done unto you”. These are not just empty words.

I am a totally selfish person. I don’t know what God is, and I don’t care. All I care about is making myself happy. In the maze of life, greed and pride lead me to blocked paths, and as the Masters say, kindness is the only road which will take me through the treacherous zigzags to my happiness, then, I am willing to try. So far, in my small, feeble efforts, their words have been proven right.

 

I'm not sure, but I don't believe you addressed the OP question here.

In order to answer that question, you would probably need to say something about observation.

Science is based on observation. We carefully make and record observations. These are the facts of science - nothing else is a fact. We then create and test hypotheses concerning how our physical universe works, with hypotheses being falsified when they don't consistently conform to the facts of observation.

I don't know how to apply your response to the questions relating to rejection of this methodology (science).

 

Sorry. I was responding to his wish for me to address the 'Five Paragraphs'. Actually his request stemmed from my earlier opinion about blind faith versus science - logic.

Observing results, and reaching conclusions from them, is logic all about. As we evaluate the results of our actions, we derive conclusions, and change our behavior accordingly, and subsequently keep modifying our existing conclusions based on subsequent result of the adjusted behavior. Science does that same thing by observing new events in the universe, or in made laboratories, and keeps reevaluating them constantly, as conflicting evidences are found. For the scrutiny of life events we use the cause and effect in our interactions with the world. This is the only way of learning the truth, be it about the physical world, or our mind. Learning the truths in the physical world brings us material abundance, while in the mind it brings happiness. A prerequisite for finding the truth is that the seeker has to adopt the attitude of a student, whether he is dealing with physical world or the mind. Nothing works illogically in the physical world. To me, the universe is logic. Then, How can faith be illogical - blind. I have tried this enough to know, that within our minds, what works is logical. None of the true lords of wisdom ever preached abandonment of logic. Only because our minds are not much open to us, we see mysteries in them. As we dig deeper into things we can unravel nature's mystery. Similarly, as we dig deeper into the mind we can unravel its mysteries. In other words, a sound religion is science of mind - of life, and all the valid scientific parameters apply to it.

 

What drives the faithless to believe anything they are told by an authority figure?

 

That's another one of your many, many, misconceptions.

I don't believe the Pope when he says there is a god.

Maybe you need to define what you mean by authority figure.

 

For the record... I have gotten to the place where the number one
anti-Christ type person that I fear... .is my own ego.....
my own selfishness... insecurity.... pride... .which is actually manifested as
insecurity and a feeling of inferiority............
I don't think you can offend me...........
take your best shot my grandson........
because I firmly believe that YOU are my grandson.... from a number of my probable past lives........(assuming the validity of the Helen Wambach Ph. D. and/ or Dr. Ian Stevenson research)?!


Back in 1988....
I began to suspect that I was actually astonishingly ignorant......
but... .when we are ignorant......
it is impossible for us to know exactly in what ways we are ignorant.....

So.... by 1990..... I quoted Isaiah 45:1.......
I literally stuck my right hand up in the air........
and I asked my spiritual guide and protector.....
Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to take me by the right hand.......
as He had taken ancient King Cyrus by the right hand........

and I told H-m that I did not like two statements he had made while human......

"many called / few chosen'
" a broad way leading to destruction and many there be who go in thereat and
and narrow way leading to life and few finding it"

I had read Leviticus 16:10 in a number of versions of scripture.....
so I decided that there was a loophole in that verse......
that I could perhaps exploit to improve matters for my dad who had
passed on January 1, 1990.........

(AS you can perhaps guess... I am in a rush here and have to run to the store so I haven't even had time to read your full response......
but I will shortly...... (G-d willing).......
but I thought you might like this.........

You will find that a Yom Kippur goat... specifically a
"goat for Azazel" is very difficult to offend........
or scare.........

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/auditions-for-the-role-of-elijah-needed.499830/