What, exactly, is socialism? Again this discussion seems necessary.

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Kode, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. markrc99

    markrc99 Member

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    Competing examples do exist, I've said as much myself. However, while State Farm says it's policyholder/ownership, does any amount of your premium roll over if you've made no claim? They're a Fortune 500 firm, what do they do with the revenue? They've been a publicly traded company since the early '90s, I don't know. I recall that in Florida a number of firms went bankrupt or pulled out & State Farm threatened to do the same, but instead cancelled a lot of coastal policies.

    The state ultimately decided to subsidize a government entity (Citizens Property Ins.) which quickly became the largest provider in the state. This is the deep south, anywhere from conservative to ultra-conservative, confronted with an issue the free market system couldn't resolve! Now, I don't know anything about Citizen's, could be just another private venture that's subsidized with the top siphoning off all the upside. But when a hurricane rolls in, it's the taxpayer who's still on the hook!

    In your model where there's no government & the free market unwilling or able to address it, how exactly would this be resolved?
     
  2. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    How would what be resolved? I'm not quite sure what you're asking.
     
  3. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    with a full service bank?

    gold or silver certificates or the actual commodity should be available.
     
  4. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    It is unlikely to find two opinions agree on what is Socialism or Capitalism. Free health care or Education is socialism according to some opinions while it can be Human Rights for some others.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  5. markrc99

    markrc99 Member

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    I asked you a few basic questions regarding your policy with State Farm. You weren't able to discern what either of those were about? Given that you believe the government is worker controlled, it's indicative of being poorly informed & an inability to comprehend any counter to that premise.

    That you believe you'd be better off w/o government, I then presented the circumstance in Florida where, due to the increased frequency, duration & intensity of hurricanes, many insurance firms either pulled out, or in the case of All State, cancelled covering home owners along coastal areas. The state filled that void! I'm asking you, if there were no government, how exactly would this issue be resolved?
     
  6. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    The point is capitalism only cares about Profit, not natural rights.
     
  7. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Some activities, such as owning a home along the coast in a hurricane zone, may simply not be insurable at the price that homeowners are willing to pay. The issue might be resolved by moving to more insurable locations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  8. markrc99

    markrc99 Member

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    I think the reason your solution wasn't a consideration isn't due to the presence of government but rather because it isn't even remotely plausible. The millions of people living along the coast are to just what, leave?
     
  9. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    I thought you were asking about a situation in which there was no state. Under such a scenario, these people, not being able to acquire insurance, would never have moved along the coast.
     
  10. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    I agree on that point
     
  11. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism can't care about anything because capitalism isn't a sentient being. It is a name for a particular set of societal rules.
     
  12. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    hence, the rational reason for Socialism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  13. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Nationalised healthcare and education are most definitely not socialism. They are 'paid luxuries', only attainable via capitalism. Assuming you want to live in a democracy, and not a totalitarian state.

    And that isn't a matter of opinion .. it's fundamental economics.
     
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  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism is an economic system. Why are you attributing 'emotions' to it?

    Meantime, if you feel that capitalism is so terrible, why do you employ it in your own life? It's easy .. in a CAPITALIST DEMOCRACY .. to opt out of that system. So why don't you?
     
  16. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You think Socialism is a gentle and indulgent provider?

    Seriously?
     
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  17. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Which is not socialism. Not even slightly. These kids are mighty confused ... or just very very good at believing little gestures equal socialism.

    As if the 'ownership' of the capitalist enterprise somehow alters it to something other than a CAPITALIST ENTERPRISE. If it's turning a profit and paying wages .. it's a CAPITALIST ENTERPRISE.
     
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  18. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    No, it isn't. It's authority .. a very different animal.
     
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    How can a nationalised form of socialism be democratic when at least half of a nation doesn't want it?

    And no, changing ownership of capitalist enterprises doesn't change a thing. It will still be flaming capitalism.
     
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  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. The only way to experience socialism in a democracy is to live it yourself, personally.

    Oddly .. VERY few people who claim they're for socialism actually live as socialists. Quite the mystery there (not really, but sarcasm is fun).
     
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  21. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Nothing to do with socialism. In fact, socialism would more likely require a return to this ... given that it's predicated on the principal of 'no free lunch'.
     
  22. james M

    james M Banned

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    Or. how can socialism be democracy when the govt has the power and the people have none.
    If a majority vote for socialism they vote to surrender their democratic authority.
     
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  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    It will never happen. It's FAR more likely that if the Progressive Left ever takes over across the West, we'll know the greatest wealth divide in the past 200 years. Homelessness will be rife, and the working classes will lose the last of the power they once had (home ownership, useful skills, etc). Old diseases will return, and Govts will bankrupt themselves trying to feed the massive increase in parasitical humans depending upon the public purse. Kids will 'graduate' from school not being able to spell their own name, and marriage will be regarded as a perversion.

    Sorry .. rant time :p
     
  24. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Socialism=Government owned and operated means of production.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    If by "means of production" you're talking about ordinary capitalist enterprise, it will still be captalism regardless of who owns it. Obviously.
     

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