What happened to the souls of those who died on September 11, 2001?

Do NDE accounts fit with my understanding of scriptures?
NDEs affirm an afterlife that agrees in general terms with posits of the scriptures. However, details of the afterlife described by NDErs are much more positive than descriptions of the afterlife posed by the scriptures. Even those who experience NDEs that are initially negative, say they came back with overwhelmingly positive reactions to their experience. NDEs offer us an extremely positive view of the afterlife. No NDE'r has returned to say they felt they were judged, or threatened for misdeeds on Earth. The conclusion I've reached is that we're not to be judged & punished; rather we're to learn from our lives on Earth and continually seek to improve ourselves thru reincarnational opportunities.

 

Well said...... I agree with you that reincarnation is an important part of the whole formula but..... I also believe that each separate and unique person that our over soul has incarnated into can also be given immortality and learn and learn and learn and go to higher and higher and higher levels of understanding and ability to mentor and encourage others.

In a visionary dream of heaven given to him back in 1995 Rick Joyner met the Patriarch Adam..... and the message that he gave was inspiring indeed.

The full message from Adam is in posts #1 and #2 here:

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...om-adam-to-all-mankind-by-rick-joyner.390023/

 

This is no more true than for dreams.

You're suggesting that a dying brain getting increasingly garbled information from it's various sensing systems somehow does a superior job than does a fully functional human cognition system.

I really don't find it surprising that the psychedelia that results during brain death sometimes can be interpreted as religious rather than rational. After all, that's what the druggies call it when they poison their systems to the point of hallucination.

 

We can't usually do the following in a dream:

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/out-of-body/charles-tart.html
Dr. Charles Tart's Study of Verified Perception
in Out-of-Body Experiences

 

Well, these things are very hard to test in any way that even approximates science while remaining within our ethical requirements for the treatment of humans.

And, I don't necessarily mean that Dr. Tart is not telling the truth. In science, it is not uncommon for experiments to be found to be inadequately designed or impossible to duplicate. That's why science has requirements for duplication and multiple levels of review.

In this case, just the fact that Dr. Tart knew the subject eliminates it from consideration, doesn't it?

 

Helen Wambach Ph. D. did a study on 1088 volunteers back beginning around 1965.

She found that about ninety percent of her volunteers could be hypnotized..... and could be regressed in time to view what they perceived as "past lives."

Dr. Wambach felt that this material could be useful to DISPROVE the idea of reincarnation........
but as her research continued her view of what she was finding changed.

I write this because her second book..... the one that dealt with what people saw happening between their death in one past life..... and their rebirth..... includes accounts of death experiences..... shockingly similar to near death experiences.

Under hypnosis....... people view past lives..... and then their death in those past lives...... then they view floating outside their bodies..... meeting previously deceased family and friends..... and mentors......... reviewing their lives with a being of light.......... and then going on into higher levels of space - time and consciousness.

They also view themselves choosing their parents and their burdens for their next life.

I read two of Helen Wambach Ph. D's books back during the 1990's and ..... they pretty much made it impossible for me to fit in nicely in any large Christian church...... because no large Christian church teaches any form of reincarnation...... not that I know of anyway.

Here is a relevant question that her research sure seems to give us a possible answer to:
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...not-lgbt-community-were-born-that-way.472882/

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...not-lgbt-community-were-born-that-way.472882/


Parapsychology and whether or not LGBT community were born that way?

 

This is certainly interesting.......



http://clayandiron.com/tropical-teachings/small-scroll-prophecies-ch-1-2-of-12/

and.......

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/exodus-usa.520741/page-2#post-1069764257

 

The Bible teaches everyone will sin, and it teaches predestination, meaning God knows who will come to Him, and who won't. So, those things are known even before our birth.

 

It does not matter where, or how you die. The Bible teaches those who believe will go be with the Lord (" be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord"), and those who do not believe will await their judgment. For this to be true, there would have to be an immediate separation of the two groups, right after we die and another (eternal) separation during the day of judgment.

As for out of body experiences, I think the brain is playing tricks on us. When I was a school boy, there was a foolish fad where kids would hyperventilate themselves while standing against a wall, and then hold their breath while others would push their chest. This would cause the subject to lose consciousness. This was done to me, and while I was out for only few seconds I had a very vivid dream which I remember to this day after all these decades. The dream was meaningless, but I remember it because it was so vivid.

 

I like your creative illustration of the relative aspects of the Soul & Oversoul, and I agree with you. The Oversoul is the source of the Soul that reincarnates on Earth, but it represents only a portion of the entire Oversoul. I'm still unclear whether the Soul actually reunites with the Oversoul to become one complete Entity again after physical death on Earth, or whether the two continue from that point to develop as individuals thru further incarnations. But I agree with your post, and would invite further postings & exchanges on this fascinating topic.

 

I recommend you read the true life experience book by Dr. Eben Alexander, called "Proof of Heaven." Dr Alexander was both an atheist who didn't believe in an afterlife, AND a neurosurgeon, who was taught in medical school that NDEs were hallucinations caused by the brain in the process of dying. His book goes into more detail and more depth on the truth or untruth of these assumptions than any book I've ever encountered. Plus, he's a darn good writer. It's anything but boring. In addition, there's now several good Youtube videos of interesting lectures & interviews by & of Dr Alexander. I also recommend those. Best wishes in your research.

 

I have read his book. The people who treated him are not in agreement of his description of his illness and how it progressed. Again, I believe his brain played tricks on him. God knows when we are dead, and will decide what happens to us at that point.

 

Some people have had scary NDE experiences of being in hell-like places. It is like any other dream, it can be a good one, or a nightmare.

 

Even a limited but open-minded attempt at research into NDEs will be enough to convince even the most resistant skeptics that NDEs are NOT dreams, or hallucinations, or illusions of any kind. They are actual short-term death experiences. There are now literally tens of thousands of recorded NDEs out there for you to evaluate. In all I've read or heard in over two decades of personal research, only one single NDE reported going to a hell of fire with no redeeming aspects. About 15% of NDEs begin with hellish or scary experiences, but change into positive, memorable ones before returning to physical reality here on Earth. No NDE I've ever heard or read about places the experiencer in a place of being judged and/or punished for their "sins" while on Earth. All NDEs are judgement neutral, but emphasize changing more toward a positive, helpful, hopeful, caring, loving person when they return to their physical lives. Unlike dreams or hallucinations, NDEs leave a profound impression on those who experience them. It is so powerful it changes them and their lives permanently, and always in positive ways. They can also be powerful learning experiences for those of us who don't actually have them ourselves.

 

Wow!!!!!!

I am so glad to find out that another poster here already understands about this!

Have you already found out about the evidence of the wide variety of incarnations that our "over soul" seems to choose?

What is that white guy doin in my head? (Past life regression under hypnosis).

 

But... the really scary near death experiences...... often produces a person who is determined to reach out to 'the lost" in a truly special way. One of my favourite negative near death experiencers is Rabbi Alon Anava who was totally irreligious previous to his seven minute or so brush with death.

Obviously...... the fear that he faced during the time his soul was outside his body produce a great drive within him to reach out to Jews...... who had not only fallen away from being observant of the rituals of Judaism...... but had even gotten away from basic mitzvah's such as being really good to the people that Creator has brought into our lives.

In my opinion.... Rabbi Alon Anava reminds me of a modern John the Baptist......... i really do think that he is one of the best of the best of the best.... even though his terrifying near death experience....... is not the usual or average NDE.

Could Rabbi Alon Anava be more like Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus than any Christian on earth?

 

If you're OK with waiting until then to get answers, then I'm happy for you. Some of us are more curious & less patient. Anyway, I'm fascinated with the ongoing, highly complex interaction between the physical realm and the spiritual, and I want to know everything possible before I pass.

 

As something of a summary.......
I believe that the highest will of G-d is to rise up within as many as possible of us infinitely precious human lives......... as possible.......
and take Christians up through a level of Consciousness comparable to John the Baptist........
and take Jews up through a level of Consciousness comparable to King David........
so that Messiah is speaking through our mouths..... doing thing through our hands..... and walking where we really should go through our feet.........

In my opinion.... what happened to Rabbi Alon Anava can be compared with him being BURNED.....
by a fire comparable to the fire of Zechariah chapter 14.... His carnal eyes and body have somewhat dissolved...... and he uses his eyes and body for G-d at an amazing level..........


Matthew 11:11

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.


Zechariah 12:8

In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.


But what G-d is doing is not at all reserved for Jews and Christians only.......

http://www.thomastwin.com/7 A Thomas samples.html

I actually nominated this writer for:


Your nomination for Nobel Prize in Literature?




I nominated him because I believe that the author sets the stage for genuine Shalom peace even in the Middle East within a century or so.......... He tackles the number one cause of anti-Semitism over the past 18 centuries with a brilliance that I had never seen before in all the books that I read on the Holocaust........
Hint.... he had a past life in the first century....... and he DOES NOT go along with the idea that the Jews killed Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus!

 

Thank you for your kind reaction to my post. I've read many of your past posts on a variety of topics & found many of them of considerable interest. I admire & respect your quest for truth. I share it. My personal quest began at my father's funeral in 1991. At the time, I was a professed atheist and could not imagine life after death. But I had this haunting thought repeat itself in my brain as I gazed upon his corpse. "Could some part of him still be conscious somewhere?" I decided then & there to set aside my personal prejudices and do some in depth research to determine whether there was convincing evidence out there somewhere to answer that question. I started by reading about Near Death Experience accounts. Then I began attending local IANDS (International Association of Near Death Studies) meetings where I lived, and listened to personal accounts live from the experiencers themselves. I made it a point to always ask in depth questions during the after lecture Q & A sessions. Then, about five years after my quest began, I was introduced to the series of books by Jane Roberts, called the "Seth Materials," which helped me to form a larger picture of the ever ongoing relationship between the physical & spiritual dimensions. The other books that made a huge impact on my thinking were written by Dr Michael Newton, called "Journey of Souls," and "Destiny of Souls." These two books report on more than two decades of personal research done by very advanced regressionist Dr Newton, who used his clients to study what we do in our time in the spirit world between incarnations. My understanding of this incredible relationship has broadened & deepened over the years. Many of my early questions are fully answered, but as with all inquiries, those answers prompted larger and deeper questions. I feel blessed to have discovered all that I have, but the topic is deeper & more complex than any of us fully comprehend. Yet, it ranks in my mind as the most compelling, and most fascinating topic I've found in my life--and I've been blessed with many interests.

 

While you and I share a quest for truth backed up by evidence, our paths toward that are different. But as the Hindu gurus teach, "All paths are paths to God." You were faced with a dilemma in your youth that forced you to leave your church, but you retained your connection to Christianity and God. As a youth, I was deeply religious in the sense of traditional Christianity, in the Methodist church. But as a teen I was faced with a quandary I couldn't resolve within traditional Christianity, and I ended up rejecting not only my church, but Christianity and God altogether. I became an atheist. My journey back to spirit is based on evidence, not religion. You quote many passages from Christian scriptures. Those ceased to have meaning for me many years ago. Yet, in spite of our very different paths, we are now very much in agreement on significant aspects of the ongoing relationship between the physical & spiritual worlds that we are all a part of. As a Christian in youth, and an atheist as an adult, I never believed in reincarnation. But my research forced me to acknowledge growing evidence that reincarnation was indeed a core ingredient of that interplay between spirit & physical existence. NDEs taught me that we as individuals have a great deal of autonomy in the spirit world to select our parents and plan important aspects of our upcoming lives BEFORE we incarnate--though we DON'T preplan our reaction or response to those events. They also taught me that the religious teachings imposing fear of punishment for our "sins" here on Earth after death, were inaccurate. That fear was groundless, and something imposed by religious leaders who were separated from spiritual truth, but blindly and tragically serving the earthly needs of their church rather than God. I learned that a religion CAN lead one to find God, but no religion has the whole truth, and most are inept in their leadership and out of touch with spiritual reality due to their focus on earthly matters. Neither God nor those light energy beings in the spirit world care about what religion you follow. The truth of the matter is far more complex and wondrous than any religious dogma or teaching. I've concluded that while no religion has the whole truth, the oldest scriptures--the Vedic writings--are probably closer to the truth than any. I'm convinced that Jesus, the Buddha, most of the great gurus, and Yogananda, all followed & taught from the Vedas, even when their audience didn't know it. My quest has brought me to the belief that we are all "gods in training," which is one oddity within Mormon religious teachings. But we grow into becoming godlike & gods over many, many incarnations in the physical, plus unimaginable time training in the spiritual realm. We have eternity. So, the question: "What do we do with eternity?" is a proper one to consider. We are all human. We are all incarnated souls. We all incarnate time and time again, over eons of time. We all learn. We all progress at our own pace, so it matters not at all if we are slower than our neighbors. Eventually, we all arrive. Enjoy the journey.

 

Brilliantly stated...........

I also found it fascinating when I found out that we played a role in choosing our parents and many of the trials that we would face in life.........

Chapter 5 in Christian Andreason's NDE account is on that topic......


http://allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

 

Yes..... I actually have read some by Dr. Newton.... and Helen Wambach Ph. D. also did a book on what happens between incarnations.......

https://www.amazon.ca/LIFE-BEFORE-Helen-Wambach/dp/0553254944



She found that on average each soul took about 52 years to reincarnate.... but that depended partly on the population of the world at the time of each incarnation.....

 

Yes, I have copies of both Dr Wabach and Dr Michael Newton's books, and have read them all. I find Dr Newton's to be more helpful for me in my quest to understand the complex, continuous interplay between the physical & spiritual worlds. Wambach's figure of 52 years average period between incarnations is probably fairly accurate, but it's important to keep in mind that it's an average--not a hard core expectation. There's evidence that many young soldiers killed in battle often reincarnate much quicker because their lives were cut short so suddenly and they left filling unfulfilled by their brief lives. Soldiers can sometimes (thought this isn't a hard core rule) reincarnate between 2 & 10 years after a battle death. The older they are at the time of death, the less likely a very quick reincarnation will occur. It's also interesting that souls do sometimes reincarnate into the same family they left at death. It's not all that common, but in some cases, grandchildren or great grandchildren can be the reincarnation of one of the grandparents who died earlier. Certainly, there are spiritual families that frequently reincarnate together as a group, though in different roles & relationships with each other. For example, a father in this life can reincarnate as a spouse, a sibling, a close relative, or good friend in their next incarnation. The process is complex & exciting, and I know of no one who has a complete understanding of it.

 

9-11.

Has 9-11 been solved and laid to rest or is it still ruminating in the minds and hearts of those that haven't received sufficient 'answers'?

 

I get the impression that more and more new information is coming out all the time......