What if Germany and Japan were victorious in WWll ?

Actually, while I question if the test in Korea was actually intended to be nuclear, I do not doubt that a test of some kind was conducted. More then likely it was probably similar to what the US group did in their "100 ton test". In other words, a large test with conventional explosives to test some of the theories prior to a real "live fire" with a fission weapon.

And the fact that Japan had cyclotrons capable of seperating out U-235 and U-238 is not a rumor. They had bought several from the US prior to the embargo, some of them the same models that the US used in it's own separation program. And they were master machinists, so I have no doubt they could have copied them.

They also had some of the finest nuclear physicists in the world, many of which had studied and researched with such greats as Einstein.

Myself, my understanding of this actually predates the "conspiracy sites" and the like by decades. I first started to research this way back in 1985, when I bought Robert K. Wilcox's book "Japan's Secret War". And while I certainly do not agree with all of his conjecture, there is no denying that they were well on the way to developing a bomb, and were in fact way ahead of the Germans.

Oh, and the fact that the No-Go and F-Go programs moved to what is now North Korea is not a rumor. After Doolittle proved that Japan could be attacked the program was moved to Korea. Specifically the Chosin Industrial area. This was an obviously logical place to put such a facility. Largely safe from enemy action, and with a huge amount of power provided from the Chosin River Hydroelectric Plant (the same reasons much of the US effort was located at Hartford in Washington State, the nearby hydroelectric plant).

But I do not believe that the Soviets "operated the plant", that was simply not their style and sounds like conspiracy crap. Their MO would have been to dismantle it and move as much of the facilities and equipment into the heart of Russia along with any personnel captured, and to do the work securely from deep inside Russia. Just like they did with captured German projects.

 

They didn't have the means to do so; they probably achieved some very small fission reaction in the cyclotrons, but they couldn't have produced enough enriched material for a fission test outside of a cyclotron. Cyclotrons take a very very long time to separate anything, and even then it will be a small capsule's worth. It takes a massive amount of electricity and equipment. A few laboratory sized cyclotrons won't be much use in fissionable materials production.

Yes. They bought at least one from Berkeley, as far as I can find. The first was invented in 1932, here in the U.S. The Germans had them as well. So did the Soviets.

As for the '100,000 rpm centrifuges', pure nonsense; they designed one one, apparently, but never built it, and if they had it wouldn't have operated at near that speed.

Yes. But, they didn't have nearly as many as the U.S. and Britain to throw at the project; that's why we were years ahead of everybody else, the number of physicists, engineers, and the money for the huge industrial plants and the personnel to build it and maintain it.

I'll see if I can get a copy and read it; I've read a couple of rebuttals of it in the past, in a couple of journals.

I knew about the Korean power plant.

Yes, it's absurd.

In any case, imo they never got out of the lab with the projects, any of them, from what I've seen so far.

 

The "100 ton test" I mentioned was very possible for Japan to do. That is because it was a conventional explosion, 100 tons of TNT detonated with some radioactive materials inside to do some non-fission testing. I am not sure of what the specifics were, but it was considered critical to the final step of detonating the actual atomic bomb.

[video=youtube;7VANyY87-_Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VANyY87-_Q[/video]

In fact, until fairly recently, this preliminary explosion was visible in Google views of the Trinity Site. But apparently in the last year or so since I last checked it has all been bulldozes so it is no longer visible.



The upper test is Trinity, the lower one is the "100 ton test". Non-nuclear, very possible for Japan to have done. And as you can see from the video, easy to confuse with an atomic bomb.

And the book is still available. I found it fascinating. And while I do not agree with all of his claims, most of them are beyond dispute.

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Photos/Trinity/images/SB39.jpg

 

The Japanese Army petitioned their Emperor to stall and wait to get more time.

We knew better.

My Great Uncle was in the BATAAN DEATH MARCH.

He saw things that he could hardly talk about but he told me as he knew what I was...as I am retired.

He told me that the Japanese Army ran the show and they would SACRIFICE EVERY MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD if it meant finding a way to win the war or at least give them time to build Nukes.

We did the right thing.

NO APOLOGY WILL EVER BE GIVEN FOR THE NUCLEAR ATTACKS UPON JAPAN....NOR SHOULD ONE EVER BE GIVEN!!

AboveAlpha

 

Once again, that relates directly to Bushido and Shinto.

I have to admit I do admire Japan for the dedication of their people and their soldiers. But that in no way means that I forgive them for what they had done.

And in the event of an invasion, I have long supported the analysis by William Shockley. This placed the casualty rated of an invasion of the Japanese main island at 1.7–4 million American casualties, including 400,000–800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities.

To give an idea on what kind of a scale that is, prior to the cancelled invasion the War Department ordered a special run of 500,000 Purple Heart medals. In the almost 70 years since the war ended, we have not made any new ones. In fact, we still have over 120,000 of that order in storage. Those who are wounded in Afghanistan today are literally given a medal that was originally made for their great-grandfathers. That is a chilling thing to consider.

 

The Americans had plans to annex Canada if the allies lost.

 

No, only if England fell. The annexation of Canada (as well as other UK territories in the Western Hemisphere) would have been purely a political move, so that Germany could not use the UK to order those territories to support them in the war.

 

But that wouldn't have happened becAuse Canada was not automatically at war durin WW2 when Britain declared war. WW1 yes. But not WW2. That was our own decision. We had a vote in parliament. That was our first independent declaration. The US Just wanted an excuse to invade and take Canada.

 

If the US had wanted Canada, it could have simply taken it, and nothing could have been done about it. And an annexation is nowhere near the same as an invasion, learn to tell the difference between the two, eh? After all, we are not talking about War Plan Crimson here after all.

 

Well I'm glad it didn't happen. So annoying....

 

Well, I am sure we would have exported more of our love of Baseball and Football. And we would have gotten more of an appreciation of Doughnuts, Beer, and Touques.

 

Yes. Just today, over dinner with some friends, we discussed about how we Americans should just take over Canada. It comes up all the time among Americans; it's all we think about, how to take over the world.

 

One has to also consider after the dropping and detonation of the first Nuke....the Japanese Army Leadership still did not want to surrender.

I mean...think about that!!

Granted....more Japanese died during the Fire Bombing of Tokyo.....but we drop a Nuke and they still wanted to continue the war.

I bristle everytime some member talks about how we should issue an apology.

NO FREAKING WAY!!

AboveAlpha

 

The U.S. and Canada are considered by our adversaries as ONE ENTITY.

Every year the Soviets then the Russian's as well as the Chinese when they issue their MILITARY THREAT ASSESSMENTS.....have always combined the U.S. and Canada as a single integrated Military Force.

Why?

Because we are!

The U.S. and Canada are BLOOD RELATIVE CLOSE!!

Every nation knows any threat or attack upon Canada or Canadian Military or Civilian interests inside our outside Canada is the same as an attack on the U.S.

AboveAlpha

 

Canada's best export: SCTV

 

They did not even want to surrender after the dropping of the second atomic bomb! And even when Emperor Showa ordered them to change their votes to acceptance, an attempted coup of senior Army leaders tried to destroy the surrender speech, take the Emperor hostage, and kill any of the leaders who refused to continue the war to it's bitter end.

 

I forget the name of the Island that we took where undreds of Japanese men, women and children who were brainwashed by the Japanese Army into thinking that if they were taken prisoner by U.S. Forces they would suffer a fate worse than death so the Japanese Civilian's began THROWING THEMSELVES OFF OF THE HIGH CLIFFS SURROUNDING THE ISLAND TO THEIR DEATHS!!

Mothers with their babies in their arms were jumping off of cliffs.

AboveAlpha

 

Saipan.

And I would not say "brainwashed" at all.

Remember, this was an era before modern mass media, and Japan was probably the most xenophobic cultire on the planet at that time. So when the people were told that the men would be castrated and made into slaves, the women raped and the children killed and eaten, they believed it.

 

That's it.....Saipan.

Your right as far as without a Modern Media the Japanese Civilian's were only listening to what they were being told.

Plus 1000's of years of Militaristic Imperialism as the meaning of Samurai is basically IN THE SERVICE OF THE EMPEROR.

The Japanese Army had this vision of themselves being Samurai Warriors but in reality they only wanted to service their own agenda.

It had to be UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER as far as Japan surrendering.

AboveAlpha

 

That was a political decision, made by all of the major Allied Powers.

In short, they had learned their lesson after WWI by not requiring a surrender and letting their former enemy build up their military and then start a second world war. After all of the millions of deaths, none of them wanted a repeat 20 years later. Because without an unconditional surrender, the Taisei Yokusankai would never have been dismantled. And without that, they simply would have bided their time, then rebuilt their military and tried again.

 

Of that I have no doubt.

AboveAlpha

 

Remember D-Day! June 6, 1944.

 

Oh, the answer is very easy. It must be that everybody want to live in Japan by now.
Bye~.

 

No Stalinism, no Cold War, no proxy wars (Vietnam, Korea).

 

Japan was always going to lose. If Germany won, that is if Churchill and the Americans didn't get on an ego trip on behalf of the international banks, then then the world would b a place of beauty, honesty and good manners today. Less species would be going exinct, Africa wouldn't be over populated. The environment would be better off, our food wouldn't be poison. And most of all, a man would still be good as his word.