What if it were you

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by kazenatsu, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    I am sure you have this image of an adorable little toddler being shredded up and sucked out and crying. When in fact it has no neural system no functioning brain and weighs about 1/10 of 1 ounce
     
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  2. ESTT

    ESTT Active Member

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    Possibly. But euthanasia is the choice of the individual who wants to die. That is not the case with abortion. I only support it because, if certain religions are correct in their assessment about the true nature of our world, it is better to be aborted prior to being capable of committing sin. Also their is the fact that the mother and fetus are very different in terms of mental capacity for desiring an outcome. But that is a topic for another time, if you wish.
     
  3. ESTT

    ESTT Active Member

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    Sorry, I didn't clarify that. I meant that for those of you who are alive and feel life is worth living, I can see why some of you are concerned about the issue of abortion, as you might want others to experience what you see as a positive.
     
  4. ESTT

    ESTT Active Member

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    From a certain point of view, that could be partially true in my case. But there is also another reason and that is because I support the rights and desires of the fully grown, cognizant human being over one in a fetul stage that cannot even comprehend what rights or desires are.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
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  5. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    I had found that for the most part all those people who wish to force an unwanted baby onto a woman is not at all willing to have the government aid her is raising that fetus to useful adulthood.

    Once more the more a state population is against even birth control the less willing they are to help support the results.

    The highest death rate for mothers giving births in the whole western world is the rich state of Texas as interfering with women right to abortions or even birth control is fine but not spending resources on the mother health.
     
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  6. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    I repeat. To those people life begins at conception and ends at birth
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 2:53 PM
  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Few see abortion as a positive

    At almost we see it as the classic "necessary evil" and would much rather there be no reason for abortion
     
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  8. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Their condition as “perfectly normal healthy babies“ is not the issue. Many people are not perfect, normal, or healthy, yet they have all the rights and protections of a person and they cannot be killed (or even legally allowed to kill themselves).

    The issue is whether an unborn baby is a person. Its clearly a person during the 3rd trimester, that was even recognized in Roe v Wade. The real question is at what point between conception and the end of the 2nd trimester does it become a person?
     
  9. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    It isn’t legal for a healthy woman to abort a healthy fetus after viability...it doesn’t happen! It’s a strawman, Most abortions are done in the first trimester when the fetus weighs less than 1 ounce and has no neural connections .
     
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  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    There is NO "issue".

    It becomes a legal person WITH RIGHTS at BIRTH.

    The End.

    As a fetus, after 23 weeks it has PROTECTIONS NOT RIGHTS.



    IF a fetus was deemed a person with rights it would also have the same RESTRICTIONS all other PERSONS have....it could NOT use another's body to sustain it's life so women still would have the right to abort it..
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 11:20 PM
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  11. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Viability is not the issue. There are many people who are not viable (alzheimers, severe injury, severe disease), yet they cannot be terminated. Stephen Hawking is completely unviable, he cannot eat, change his clothes, go to the bathroom, even breath, without help. Yet killing him would be considered murder.

    When does an unborn baby become a person? That's the issue. Its sometime between conception and the end of the 2nd trimester. If you cannot conclusively identify that point, then the legal and social principles force it to be conception.
     
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  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Uh, duh, Hawking has been BORN...didn't you know that !!!!!!!








    Sometimes repetition is the only way some can learn:

    There is NO "issue".

    It becomes a legal person WITH RIGHTS at BIRTH.

    The End.

    As a fetus, after 23 weeks it has PROTECTIONS NOT RIGHTS.



    IF a fetus was deemed a person with rights it would also have the same RESTRICTIONS all other PERSONS have....it could NOT use another's body to sustain it's life so women still would have the right to abort it..



    AND LOL! Ignoring it won't make it go away , it's HERE TO STAY......YOU may not want to see the truth but it's right there and you can't change it :nana:
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017 at 8:13 AM
  13. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    When you are Comparing a born person to a ZEF that is disingenuous. A ZEF is preborn, and a cadaver is post born. Neither is alive.
    Since most abortions are done in the first trimester, when there is no neural function, no brain function and weighs less than an ounce...you can’t compare it to Hawkins who has a brilliant functioning mind . When a fetus can live outside the mothers body, your point would be valid. ....they don’t have life support for a 1/2 ounce “baby”.
     
  14. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. An unborn baby is alive, and it will continuously improve its ability and condition until it reaches a stage of human development which even you will admit is a person. A cadaver is dead, no matter what is done it will never improve its condition.


    You keep saying that most abortions are in the first trimester. Why? That has nothing to do with the issue of when an unborn baby becomes a person.

    <>

    Hawking is totally helpless, he cannot even communicate ideas from his brilliant mind without outside help. He is as helpless as a baby in its first trimester. And while the unborn baby will improve, Hawking will not improve, he will get continue to degenerate no matter what treatment is performed on him.
     
  15. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but Hawking is a born person with rights and a fetus isn't...why is it so hard to know the difference between born and unborn....see, they are two different words...

    See one means before birth and the other means after birth...

    If there was no difference there wouldn't even be a word "born"....now do you understand why that word was invented?


    If there was no difference we would just call it by one word but there's two words for a reason....:)


    You can ignore the facts but they don't disappear because you don't like them :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017 at 9:54 PM
  16. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is a point when a fetus is viable and unless there is a medical reason they can’t be aborted. But if you are going to tell me that an embryo that weighs 1/10 of an ounce is alive then we just can’t agree. As I have said if you believe it is a life then remove it from a woman’s body and see what happens. It is as much alive as an acorn is a tree. Zygote is a potential child
    The reason I mention that most abortions are done in the first trimester is because there is no neural connections or brain functioning and it weighs less than 1 ounce and you can call it a child all you want but it isn’t
    .
     
  17. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    An embryo is alive, its living cells, that's not even debatable. Is it a person? That is the question.

    An acorn is a good example. An acorn is a stage of life for a oak tree, it has everything required to develop into an oak tree. Just as a human embryo is a stage of a human. Humans are embryos, babies, children, teens, adults, elderly, all stages with different appearance and physical and mental characteristics.

    You argue viability, that argument has been abandoned for decades - it was even problematic for Blackmun in the Roe opinion. There are too many people who are not viable for viability to be the deciding factor.
     
  18. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Ya, viability is a factor, any fetus over 23 weeks is considered viable. ...Viability hasn't been "abandoned for decades"....(what an asinine thing to claim)

    Why, oh, why can't the Anti-Choicers keep up and quit lying...
     

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