What if mandatory health insurance could save lives?

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by ARDY, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Things are going backward here though, as you'd expect with a dogmatic right wing government. The NHS is gradually being privatised, inflaming costs. Also NHS resources are used in private insurance deals, leading to delays in treatment.
     
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  2. Idahojunebug77

    Idahojunebug77 Well-Known Member

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    But to be honest it has been that way for 40 years. The wealthy went to private doctors and the rest were left with the promises of NHS. Did anyone ever really expect any other outcome? Like I said, government healthcare has the same incentive to reduce expenditures as private healthcare.
     
  3. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    This isnt about incentives to reduce expenditures. It is an ideological assault on economic efficiency. Even then they have to fib about their motives. See, for example, the lies made over privatisation made during the election.
     
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  4. Idahojunebug77

    Idahojunebug77 Well-Known Member

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    Ha! That made me laugh. Economic efficiency is only one measure of efficiency. Economic efficiency is also the same argument the proponents of neoliberalism used to make the wealthy super wealthy and the working class poorer. Appeals to economic efficiency will not ever sway my opinion.

    I assumed everyone already knew politicians and activists lie about what they are promoting, but I live a somewhat isolated life.
     
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From birth, one is covered by the NHS in Britain. In fact, Britain was the first European country in the 1950s to adopt a National Healthcare System.

    One can see "private" doctors if wished, but one is reimbursed only at the NHS-rate, much less that private-medicine fees ...
     
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Given economic inefficiency here refers to higher deaths, the laughter seems a tad awkward. But hey ho, each to their own.

    You'd only have a point if we were referring to a standard neoclassical perspective where efficiency and equity (given lump sum transfers aren't necessarily achievable) are in conflict. The pursuit of efficiency can then promote an unfair society. That makes zero sense in the context of the NHS, as it is available to everyone. Efficiency therefore actually means greater levels of healthcare for a given budget.

    We haven't seen reductions in the budget. We necessarily have seen rent seeking behaviour. For example, one well known company has £2 billion worth of contracts and pays zero tax. Of course this is also why the US is desperate for the NHS to be included in any post-Brexit free trade deal. It will generate pharmaceutical profiteering opportunity, while making it easier for company to enjoy the inefficient privatisation opportunity.

    Its also naive to think that this is standard government behaviour. A government actively pursuing lower life expectancy is not the norm. It is, however, consistent with an extreme example of rentier capitalism.
     
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  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You could not be more wrong about expenses.

    But I am tired of showing you the real numbers. People like you just Dont Wanna Believe that what's wrong today is killing Americans.

    Because you THINK everything in America is hunkey-dorey.

    Sweet dreams ... !
     
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  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [QUOTE="ARDY, post: 1071250886, member: 67907]"What if mandatory health insurance could save lives?[/QUOTE]
    That's not an automatic. For one thing, we would have to look at cost per life saved.
     
  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Not a fan of Gov telling me I MUST purchase something. I am a citizen, not a subject.
    Hard to believe people want to give the Gov authority to FORCE you to purchase something.
     
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  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    PROS AND CONS - PART 1

    That is NOT the only criteria. See here, from The Balance: Universal Health Care in Different Countries, Pros and Cons of Each

     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    PROS AND CONS - PART 2

     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    So Thatcher was right and there is no such thing as Society?
     
  13. Idahojunebug77

    Idahojunebug77 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think she ever realized the damage to the individual caused be neoliberlism.
     
  14. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Of course she did. She destroyed the industrial base, quadrupled unemployment and ensured record child poverty. They've always known!
     
  15. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    You think she was a fan of this?
     
  16. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    She said it directly: there is no such thing as society.
     
  17. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what this has to do with the topic...
     
  18. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Part of her "no society" approach was to impose neoliberalism. We saw contracting out, for example, of cleaning services in the NHS. Firms cutting corners and infections running amok. We saw the beginnings of its privatisation. Tax dodging companies at the trough of rentier capitalism.

    And we're now in a situation where we aren't prepared for COVID-19. We can trace it all back to Thatcher and the right wing obsession to destroy effective health care out of nothing but dogmatic vandalism...
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  19. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    OK, sure...:rolleyes: Where this post belongs------> :toilet:
    Guess you never heard of ironically named "Affordable Care Act".
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Is that supposed to be a mature response? Have a word with yourself.
     
  21. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    As if your partisan "The right wing destroyed health care" merits any more? You can thank Obama for that.
     
  22. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to Britain. It also wasn't partisan, as the problem actually intensified with New Labour.

    Now you might not know much about Britain. You might make error. However, there is no excuse to ignore mature dialogue.
     
  23. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression this thread was about American health insurance.
     
  24. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    The NHS offers an insight in the gains from national care over insurance, but also how- as you weaken towards standard rentier capitalism expected in the US- those gains dissipate.

    Bit obvious really. But well done for coming out with an effort at mature comment ;)
     
  25. Idahojunebug77

    Idahojunebug77 Well-Known Member

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    But it most be noted, rentier capitalism to be possible requires government intervention.

    Carry on. Did not intend to interupt the discussion.
     

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