WHAT IS MIDDLE CLASS ?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Oh Yeah, Sep 12, 2020.

?

What is Middle Class ? Why?

Poll closed Oct 12, 2020.
  1. 1. Wealth accumulated

    6 vote(s)
    31.6%
  2. 2. Education Level

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 3. Moral Values

    1 vote(s)
    5.3%
  4. 4. Neighborhood one lives in

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. 5. Present income

    10 vote(s)
    52.6%
  6. 6. Race association

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. 7. Culture

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%
  1. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    My mother did not work outside the home, she raised 4 kids. My Dad was only making low middle class wages, but everything was paid for except the house. There was eventually a credit card, but paid in full each month. This was in New Jersey, in a middle class suburb about 30 minutes outside on NY. We lived post-depression middle class, and when Dad lost his job and before he started his own company, we sucked in the belt, I wore hand-me-downs, had two pairs of shoes and 3 changes of clothes for school. We all held after school/weekend/summer jobs. We were not gifted with cars for high school graduation, though we were granted loans from First Nation Bank of Mom, with a 1% interest rate to buy our first cars. Failure to pay, and the keys disappeared.

    I've worked since I was 14. I went into debt from personal circumstances to the point of considering bankruptcy back in 1992, and once we crawl out of that, swore we would never be there again, and we haven't. If we can't afford to pay cash for it, we don't need it. (excluding house)

    Of course realtors are going to upsell you, they get paid to do it. Just because they try to push you that way, doesn't mean you have to do it. One has to apply reason and logic to things like that, and that is part of what seems to be missing in the current day. The separation of need and want.
     
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  2. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I think you misread wages and where one lives.

    I take it as, $50K/yr in the middle of Kansas would be very good middle class wages, where $50K in San Francisco, is likely low middle class at best.
     
  3. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    While your post is reasonable on it's face, one could be in debt up to their eyeballs, but only making $50k and living like it they make $100k.

    Unfortunately, there are many, many people who live like the are upper middle class, with a lower middle class income, and those are the people who will not survive an economic downturn.
     
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  4. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Very few Dems want open borders.
     
  5. gringo

    gringo Well-Known Member Donor

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    defining if a person is rich is very difficult

    the government continues to print money like it is toilet paper so every day there are more people becoming what some consider rich

    as a kid a "Millionaire" was goal most only dreamed of

    there are close to 15 million millionaires in united states today

    so being a millionaire is not an exclusive club ...and

    I do not consider myself rich or poor

    I consider myself middle class..but some would consider me to be rich

    people who consider themselves poor think everybody else is rich

    poor people consider anyone not poor as rich

    and poor can certainly be defined

    if a person is not poor he/she is middle class or rich

    defining poor is easy

    defining middle class and rich is not
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  6. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Our lives were pretty much the same. I didn't buy that house in Napa but packed up my first wife and 2 daughters and drove across country to Virginia Beach, Va. 1966. Bought my first house for $13,800. Comparable to the $33,000 one in Napa. Never bought a new car until 1979. Haven't bought a new one since. Sold my last house last year and downsized into a one bedroom with a garage about the size of a timeshare. Works great for me and my wife. Don't know what class that puts me in and that's fine with me.
     
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  7. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    By your time schedule, you're OLD. :)

    We skip the new car stuff also. Current vehicles (all bought used) are 2002, 2011 and 2011.
     
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  8. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Buying a new car is one of the most wasteful ways to spend money.
    One loses 30% of the money in the 1st 30 days.
     
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  9. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    I understood that. Just wondering what difference it makes.to the person in Kansas. If their job puts them in middle class in KS then likely it would pay more and keep them in middle class if they moved to SF.
     
  10. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    The whole "class" idea is a Marxist thing. Be careful not to get bogged down in Brother Karl's errors.
     
  11. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Very likely. As one used to 50K in Kansas should demand the Cost of Living difference to move to SF.
    But that's to move.

    I would bet there are many making 50K in SF now, would they be considered middle class? Likely could not afford to buy a home.

    upload_2020-9-16_13-13-19.png
    https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ca/san-francisco/

    Near $24K/yr is needed in SF just to rent an average apartment.
     
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  12. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just watched on the financial channel MSNBC that one silicon valley company is offering it's employees $20,000 and a 10% pay cut to leave the Bay area. The general feeling from the commentators was that is a great deal.
     
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  13. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I wasn't suggesting that some people in SF are not making low wages for their location. I was simply saying that because a person makes 50k in KS it has nothing to do with how much someone makes in SF. 50k would be a outstanding wage where I live. I have earned an average of less than one third of that my entire working life and I have a new home on 5 acres and no mortgage.

    In my opinion the biggest problem with the middle class is they try and live like the upper class. They want too many things that they really don't need. People need to live within their means.
     
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  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what builders have to do with it. New houses are a speciality item where I live .. very few people own them or want them.
     
  15. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I find the strangest thing I heard of when I was in Germany is that if a person builds a new home to live in that they usually rent it out for the first year or two to avoid breathing any toxic glues or chemicals that be in the building materials.

    I have been doing some remodeling in my garage and about 6 weeks ago I was paying $1.45 for 2x4's. This week they are $4.45. If it is a sign of a lumber shortage expect home prices to go parabolic.
     
  16. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    It's not just that they don't need them, they can't actually afford them. Being able to pay for it and being able to afford it, are two different things.

    Meantime, you're very lucky to live where you live. Where I live $50k would be considered poverty, and a house on 5 acres would cost about $5m. We were only able to buy here because we'd made good money on previous properties and had paid off all mortgages .. it had nothing to do with our income (which is low by local standards).
     
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  17. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    They're smart. I'd never live in a newly built house or apartment.
     
  18. Idahojunebug77

    Idahojunebug77 Well-Known Member

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    Good luck trying to buy a barely used vehicle with that degree of discount, they arent available. To overcome the significant loss of trade-in value the first thirty days, keep the vehicle for years and it will all average out.
     
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Still crazy. Best option is cars over 5 years old.
     
  20. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Not if you have to finance it for 5 or 6 yrs.

    But you are somewhat correct. If one can keep a brand new car for 10 yrs, they will get about the equal value out of buying a 5 yr old vehicle and keeping it for 5 yrs. But used cars require a lot less capital to be tied up.
    I've paid cash for all vehicles I've bought, except 1. I borrowed $1500 from my 401k to purchase one.
    And I've never paid more than $1000/yr. Often times in the $500-$750 per year cost of ownership.
     
  21. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Agree, cash only for cars always. We've never financed a car, and never would. We also avoid buying cars that are over insurable value. Third party compulsory insurances only for us.
     
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  22. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    I have financed my last two pickups. I also bought them new. The 1992 I drove over 200,000 and sold it in 2015 for $995. The 2003 has not hit 100,000 yet, it will likely go another 17 years. Each was paid off a couple years early.
    On the positive side, I didn't finance my home but paid cash as I built it.
     
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  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The NY Times and home of the worst financial editorial writer in modern history?
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that you end up paying far more than the value of the car, when you finance it. That's the part we can't accept .. paying a premium just for 'newness', on a depreciating asset.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  25. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Probable true but I put large down payments and pay the loans off early. I figure that extra I spend got me a brand new vehicle and when I drive them for more than 20 years I say what the heck. I saved lots on my house.
     
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