Many theists claim theism (and specifically judeo Christian theism) as the necessary source of morality. This got me thinking: What is morality? As far as I can tell morality is a social construct. As such, our view of morality has changed across time and cultures. For example, when I was young it was considered immoral to cohabit without marriage. Divorce was some what scandalous. gays were most definitely in the closet. And lots of good Christians were perfectly comfortable with racial discrimination... particularly concerning intermixing races through marriage.... heck, a lot of Christians felt it was immoral to marry a Jew, or a papist. clearly there are many versions of theism outside Christianity. These alternate theism shave their own different views of morality. And, I suppose, that these alternate versions of theism have their own different sects that have separate views of morality. so where is the evidence that morality can only come from god?
Good question. I reckon if morality came from God, we would all have the same morals. And yet some Christians believe gambling is a sin and others do not, for example. However, there are some sins that are universal across both religious and nonreligious societies the world around, like sex with children. So Im really not sure of the answer. I dont believe morality is necessarily defined by or originated from God, but neither is it entirely a social construct.
There isn't any. Morality probably developed from the need to live amicably and successfully together. Stealing your friend's stone axe or raping his woman is not going to help. Religion may have codified that, and then it would be easy to add other things depending on your viewpoint.
Nowhere for atheists, through a deity for theists. although our upstanding top shelf honest abe freedom loving gubmint hijacked ALL your reserved rights originally outside and above their jurisdiction and converted them to privileges inside and below their jurisdiction and no one did anything or will do ever anything about it, today morality is what the gubmint tells you is right or wrong. That said morality in the US comes from the congress the courts and the just-us club and their well established religion, otherwise anything goes.
But does that mean it comes from god? Or because it comes from our human nature? According to the Bible, Generally the OT god seemed more concerned about whether we should eat pigs than how we treat our children
Thats the beauty of 'religion', they realized that a lot of pork had something wrong with it (like we know today it was trichinae) and would kill them, so they incorporated it into their religion, thus believers in 'that' religion were saved from death.
Reality disagrees with you. You are playing make believe that the only possible moral theory is Divine Command Theory, which is just hilariously wrong. Look up utilitarianism, deontology, or virtue ethics some time for a starters. I can provide you with resources if you want. Besides, DCT has yet to provide a truly satisfactory answer to the Euthyphro Dilemma. If God bases his morals on any kind of reasoning at all, then God is no longer needed for morality; the reasoning itself would suffice. If God does not base his morals on any kind of reasoning, then his "morality" is capricious and arbitrary. Rape and murder being evil would just be a matter of his personal tastes and arbitrary whims.
Many anti theists fail in their attempts to suggest that morality comes from any place other than the one and only true God and His Son Jesus was, is and always will be the Christ. The one and only name by which one must be saved. All other religions and beliefs are frauds. The bible is the ONLY legitimate source for developing proper moral views. Lots of good Atheists are good with killing ten million of their own countrymen.
Beats me..... but it seems to be a frequently raised point by respected authorities such as jordan peterson
and Jordan Peterson is smarter than everyone on this board but more importantly he is factually correct.
you made that **** up, I never said that, please reread my post several hundred times till you get it right. thanks
Morality is entirely subjective and has changed endlessly since the beginning of human history. lots of theists are good with it too.
So the claim that morality comes from "Nowhere for atheists, through a deity for theists" is false then. Glad we are now on the same page. I agree with this new assessment.
What is morality? Guidelines for minimum acceptable behavior within a given society. I do believe morality is determinable. Meaning, we set the rule based on what harm it causes others verses it's value. Example, it is wrong to plunge a knife into somebody unless you are performing life saving surgery. We set this on the basis that human life has value. If you don't believe it has value you are amoral. From an evolutionary stand point society is a value, because society has moral codes it therefore is an evolutionary imitative to create morality. I would go as far as to say it's an inevitably. A consequence of all socal order.
to the contrary that zinged right past you. neoatheists and atheists are limited to the natural world which is ONLY that which can be examined under science which is limited to matter. Morality does not exist in the natural world. Morality is a 'value' call, morality has no matter, nothing that can be hit by a hammer therefore nothing that can be evaluated by science. If that is the case, that [neo]atheists really have their own set of morals, then there has to be a no-bell prize in it for you for you unification theory of the supernatural with the natural in defiance of all philosophy!
This nonsense was addressed in my last post. Not all atheists are materialists and most materialists leave room for things like value thanks to emergent qualities. Naturalist accounts of morality have been around for thousands of years. How do you not know this? Every intro to ethics class in existence covers this.
logic and reason can be difficult talents for neoatheists to master. failure is the cause of dissonance. [neo]atheists cant be materialists and nonmaterialists at the same time. sorry. value has no matter, no material, it cannot reside in a material world. sorry Ethics is the study of morals, it does not give atheists a license to practice supernatural. sorry
Morality comes from society. Moral behavior is that which doesn't interfere with the smooth operation of society. Naturally it varies from society to society. Religion is an important means to enforce moral behavior. I would say that it is the single most important means.
Its moral for one religion to protest against another religion, and it may disrupt society regardless that its moral. The people being protested against may throw rocks despite free speech. Do you ban protesting or telling the truth like they did in germany because one party may become incensed? I dont think thats a very good policy. Correct action would be to throw anyone rioting in jail not the protestors with free speech rights. A moral premise originates from one person, when put into practice it becomes that persons religion, if it catches on it becomes socially applied where it shapes and forms and becomes the culture of the adherents at large.
well a take away point if freedom of speech is to be protected you jail the perps not the people expressing the morality that disrupts another group.
I think you are making an assumption that sex with children is universally considered a sin at least as far as the US definition of a child is concerned. In fact I believe in the past marrying what we now considered children was acceptable.
