What is morality?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ARDY, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    They acted in each others' interest, thus meeting your stated criterion; and of course such action will sometimes require that perceived enemies suffer such a fate, as did the enemies of the Allies in Dresden and Tokyo.
    Through conscience.
    There being only one, the question is moot.
    Presumably you're thinking of something codified in words, but this thread is about morality, to which such codification is extraneous at best.
     
  2. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    It is importantant to empathize with the Jews AND with the struggle of Germans after WWI. Also, don't confuse pursuing shared selfish interests with empathizing.
     
  3. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Swell, thanks for nothing.
    And you'd have us reliably differentiate between them how, precisely?
     
  4. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Explain how conscience is God’s morality vehicle. Do indigenous people in remote areas of South America that aren’t believer/followers of a monotheistic belief have no conscience, and therefore no morals? Most of these groups also lack a written codification of their spiritual beliefs.

    As for the which God question, it’s not a moot question; you can’t prove if there is none, one or many without trusting some human authority (who can’t either) that says there is but one. As for which one Muslims, Christians, and Jews follow, it is relevant if you believe morals come from God; if the same God they should all share the same moral standards and I doubt there would be consensus that they do.

    Do atheists and agnostics not possess a conscience and therefore follow a moral code?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  5. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    It doesn't meet my criterion. If the Nazis had acted without self interest, they would not have felt the need to eliminate the Jews. If they acted in the interest of the Jews, it would have to mean that the Jews wanted to be eradicated.

    My definition of morality would be acting in a way that does not focus only on the self. That should not be twisted to mean that killing others is moral.
     
  6. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, the immorality belongs to the countries of Sierra Leone, Liberia, Angola, the Republic of Congo, Côte d’Ivoire, the Central African Republic, and the Democratic Republic of Congo.

    It's only immoral to engage in trade with those countries for diamonds if the purchaser knows the conditions under which the depraved people of those countries mine them.
     
  7. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do unto others as you would have done unto you, but reserve the right do unto them before they do it unto you.
    Live and Let Live.

    No god required.
     
  8. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Viewer Discretion Required!: Finally indisputable proof of nazi evil and hitlers genocide plan for the jews HERE!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  9. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    And the companies that buy ans sell the diamonds certainly do know the conditions. True also of all the US companies that buy good overseas produced essentially by slave labor.
     
  10. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Most manufacturing companies have horrible conditions to work in and after people put in their time they are too beat up and sick from exposure to do much more than retire to their graves.

    We can only be kept in the cages we do not see.




    History and the modern slave model.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  11. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    That in your mind constitutes evidence?
     
  12. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How would you purchasing an item know how it was obtained?

    You mean like your cell phone and NBA tickets?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  13. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Usually by educating oneself.And I wouldn’t waste my time aching sports.
     
  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can only educate yourself about your purchase if someone provides you that information.

    That's not always possible with a foreign source.

    And as I indicated, you have a problem with "blood diamonds", but I'm sure you possess a cell phone that was manufactured with basically slave labor.
     
  15. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Agreed not always but often enough. Yes I have a ten year old cell phone.
     
  16. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    You're expecting a schematic, maybe?
    Insufficient data. A cannibal might have a conscience, though obviously he doesn't follow it.
    Your point being...?
    Of course it is.
    Doesn't matter what I can prove. All that matters is the reality of one God.
    Again, insufficient data.
    What's that got to do with conscience?
    Of course it does.
    Your stated criterion doesn't require that.
    Non sequitur, for the reason previously stated.
    Your criterion doesn't require that.
    Which of course is what every Nazi did, insofar as he or she remained true to the Nazi cause.
    No need to twist anything, as self-defense is perfectly consistent with your criterion.
     
  17. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I have lived with indigenous people in South America in the upper Amazon and lower Orinoco Rivers. They don’t believe in a single God yet they observe a moral code and would consider you lacking.
    You view of God, Morality, and conscience is arrogant and egocentric and would not follow the teachings of your savior.

    As for leaping into discussions of Nazis, I did not engage in that discussion. So, why did you engage in that with your response to my post.

    That there is only one God is not reality, but opinion, a matter of faith, and not of fact. I noticed again you side stepped my questions regarding whether Muslims, Christians, and Jews believe in the same God or not, because if the same God, why the different teachings and differences in observed moral codes if they indeed are conveyed by God?

    If Morality is defined by God, is it then a moral thing to do to execute non believers? And, The Spanish Inquisition then, a moral institution of the past? Were the inquisitors lacking conscience?

    I was born into a Catholic family, but do not observe the Catholic faith; does that mean you would regard me as an immoral person?
     
  18. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Because...?
    I didn't.
    Then prove it.
    That's because I have no obligation or intention to reconcile the beliefs of billions of people I don't know from Adam with my own.
    Seeing I never said they all are, I'd say the question is irrelevant. Wouldn't you?
    Perhaps you'd like to tell us how exactly one would logically get from that premise to that conclusion.
    According to whom?
    We have no way of knowing. All we know is that if they had it they didn't follow it.
    How the hell anyone would get that out of anything I said, I haven't the foggiest idea.
     
  19. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Not my criterion. The actions of the Nazis were purely self interested. They were not protecting themselves from Jews or anyone else. Their actions were aggression, plain and simple. Your claim that "every" Nazi acted in an unselfish way is false because I talked about the Nazis as a whole, and you turned that into the actions of the individuals. Collectively, the Nazis acted only in their own self interest. Regardless, the individual actions of the Nazis in support of the greater whole and it's ambitions/motivations does not change anything. Whether it's the actions of the individuals in support of the whole, or the whole in support of the individuals, those actions were to deny self interests to the Jews.

    If you disagree with the self interest thing in my definition, that's fine. It's really not necessary to dive into a battle over the logic of my wording.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  20. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    This is false
    Yes they were, they knew the source of their countries devastation
    False, the zionists were the aggressors, blackmailed the country that took them in, britain had no qualms against committing unheard of war crimes, and france, britain drew first blood, the poles massacred thousands of germans, hitler was sucked into war, just like we sucked japan into war and then demonized japan, the typical brito-american-goodguy-model.
    false they acted in response to the raped and pillaged people of both the german people and europe, literally everyone loved hitler, he took 99.7% of the chez vote in a fully democratic election, fair and square without the need for diebold to stack the deck as it is in the us kleptocracy.
    the jews started and with their pal churchill then perpetuated the war.
    No logic required you are simply misinformed, and repeating propaganda, the truth is out there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  21. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I'm sorry, but that has little to do with my comments to the other poster. I'm not sure who brought the Nazis and Jews into this discussion of the definition of morality, but the topic is the definition. Your comments would be more appropriate to posts in another forum such as the one on history.
     
  22. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Im all for your deleting ALL post of nazi and Hitler in this thread for anyone who brought it uip, since it was inappropriate in the first place for anyone to use the topic of morality as a veiled sounding board to rant about hitler, otherwise can we all agree to leave hitler and the nazi's out of it from this point forward?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  23. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I don't have the power of deletion, nor do I see a need to do so. If you want to have those comments deleted, you should report them. My comments were an attempt to keep us from derailing a good discussion by going off topic. The previous references to the Nazis referencing my posts were only used as an application of my definition of morality in a purely logical way. In other words, he's saying my definition is flawed and giving his reasons why he thinks so--nothing more.

    I didn't mean for my sound negative, and I'm sorry for my poor wording.
     
  24. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    and I apologize for not paying closer attention, however brito-zionist propaganda regarding the nazis and hitler should not be used as an examples of immorality since its a matter of record that hitler shut down all the brothels, burned all porno and outlawed sleaze joints in which deity based religions would consider 'higher moral standards' and since the Russians released the records the holocaust as it was presented to us has now been proven to be a fraud. Anyway I am not going to continue with this in this thread, and I hope everyone else refrains from it as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  25. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Why is it when someone quotes me, I notice all my grammatical flaws?
    Thank you.
     

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