What is Palestine who are the Palestinians?

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by HBendor, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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  2. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Palestinians are Arab Bedouins, most support Hammas
    Hammas support ISIS and other terror evil groups.
    Those are Palestinians.
    Blahhhhhhhhhhh
     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Most Palestinians are descended from first century Jews as well as Turks, Greeks, Canaanites, Syrians and Crusaders etc.

    For the most part they were settled people... farmers and shopkeepers.
     
  4. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Land of Canaan - Philistia (in English ) Filistin (in Arabic)
    wiki says :

    "The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece.[9] Herodotus wrote of a 'district of Syria, called Palaistinê in The Histories, the first historical work clearly defining the region, which included the Judaean Mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley. and formed part of the 5th Persian satrapy (νομός).[14] Approximately a century later, Aristotle used a similar definition in Meteorology, writing "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake (λίμνη) in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we have said. They say that this lake is so bitter and salt that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake them it cleans them," understood by scholars to be a reference to the Dead Sea.[15] Later writers such as Polemon, and Pausanias also used the term to refer to the same region. This usage was followed by Roman writers such as Ovid, Tibullus, Pomponius Mela, Pliny the Elder,[16] Statius, as well as Roman-era Greek writers such as Plutarch, Dio Chrysostom and Roman-era Judean writers such as Philo of Alexandria[17] and Josephus.[18] Other writers, such as Strabo, a prominent Roman-era Greek geographer, referred to the region as Coele-Syria around 10–20 CE,[19][20] and the Gospel of Matthew's description of the Flight into Egypt refers to the region as "the land of Israel" [εἰς γῆν Ἰσραήλ], the only time in the New Testament such a reference is made.
    The term was first used to denote an official province of the Roman Empire in c. 135 CE, when the Roman authorities, following the suppression of the Bar Kokhba revolt, combined Iudaea Province with Galilee and other surrounding cities such as Ashkelon to form Syria Palaestina. There is circumstantial evidence linking Hadrian with the name change,[22] although the precise date is not certain,[22] and the interpretation of some scholars that the name change may have been intended "to complete the dissociation with Judaea"[23][24] is disputed.
    -----

    The Hebrew name Peleshet (פלשת Pəlésheth) – usually translated as Philistia in English, is used in the Bible more than 250 times. The Greek word Palaistinē (Παλαιστίνη, Palaistine) is generally accepted to be a translation of the Semitic name for Philistia; however another term – land of the Philistieim (γῆ τῶν Φυλιστιεἰμ, transliteration from Hebrew ארץ פלשתים 'Eretz Pəlishtím, land of the Philistines) – was used in the Septuagint, the second century BCE Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, to refer to Philistia.[26] In the Torah / Pentateuch, the term Philistia is used 10 times and its boundaries are undefined. The later Historical books (see Deuteronomistic history) include most of the biblical references, almost 200 of which are in the Book of Judges and the Books of Samuel; in these cases, the word refers to the lands around the several Philistine city-states along the Mediterranean coast, west of the Judean mountains, from Gaza in the south to Ekron in the north


    viva-palestina.jpg


    vivapalestina.jpg

    ----
     
  5. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    Historiclly it is isnt right!!
    The Land of Cna'an is:
    A_map_of_Canaan_(8343807206).jpg

    Philistia is located in the North side of Gaza and the rest of that area. This area was under Philistines rule, a group of people that came from the Aegean Sea:
    philistia.png

    The name in Arabic is "Falestine" and it refering to whole of the country of Israel. Thats why you are hearing from Arabs that Israel is occupying the Arabs because they refering to whole of Israel and not just to Judea and Samaria or Gaza.

    1. Herodotus, in his arrivel to the Land of Israel, he came from the area of Gaza, and he heard from the people wo lived in that area that the name of the this area is Philistia so because of that he called to the the Land of Israel Philistia which is historiclly incorrect because the history showed that Philistia is only refering to the area of Gaza.
    2. The name "Palestine" was first used by the Roman Empire after the Bar Kochba's revolt to exterminated the name "Judea" from the map.
    3. when Aristotle used a similer definition was the outcome of what he heard from several people, because of that only his definition cant be taken too much seriously.
    4. The New Testimony like the whole Christianity was established from Judaism itself, the New Testimony was written from the Bible, so basiclly if you want to refer to the New Testimony you need to refer yourself to the Bible too because it was written from the Bible.

    The name "Palestine" was first used by the Roman Empire after the Bar Kochba's revolt to exterminated the name "Judea" from the map. Hadrian gave the name "Syria-Palestine, BUT still that term didnt refered to the so called "Palestinians" that was didnt existed back then but just to exterminated the name Judea.

    Once again, Peleshat or "Philistia" was refered only to the area of Gaza, which the Philistines was located there, so if you are saying that "Palestinians" are the decendes of the ancient Philistines so their original area is the area of Greece or Cyprus or even Egypt that came to the Land of Cna'an to Gaza from there. So basiclly you are saying that the "Palestinians" or as you called them in your comment "philistines" dont belong to the Land of Israel, and if so, so they belong to Gaza area and thats it!
     
  6. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Herodotus referred to Syria-Palestine in 500 BC as a province of Syria.
     
  7. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    Syria-Palestine wasnt existed in the 500 BC, the term "Sirya-Palestine" was first used after Bar Kochba's revolt when the Roman emperor, Hadrian, used the term "Syria-Palestine" to exterminated the name "Judea" from the map.

    Herodotus called the Land of Israel Philistia after he arrived to the area of Gaza and heard from the locals that the area of Gaza was called Philistia, so he assumed and called all of the Land of Israel Philistia. Philistia and Syria-Palestine arent the same!!
     
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Well, the people always lived there and Herodotus identified Palestine as a province of Syria..

    The area was NOT inhabited by European Jews.
     
  9. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    Once again, Herodotus called the Land of Israel Philistia because he heard from the locals in Gaza, the place he arrived from, that the area of Gaza alone was called Philistia so he take it a little further and call the Land of Israel and not just Gaza Philistia. Syria-Palestine was first used be the Roman emperor, Hadrian, after Bar Kochba's revolt.
    Herudotus was in the 5th century BC while Hadrian was existed in the 2nd century AD

    Gaza in the 5th century, when Herodotus arrived, was ingabited by non Jewish groups. BUT Jews were in the Land of Israel all through history.
     
  10. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Philistines, Jews, Herodotus and the "Palestine" Question ..."toafos of a re'em" ?


    http://kpr37.newsvine.com/_news/201...s-and-the-palestine-question-toafos-of-a-reem

    A truth that's told with bad intent/ Beats all the lies you can invent (William Blake)

    Herodotus was born 484 BC and died 425 BC
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Hadrian's curse - The invention of Palestine

    Hadrian Roman Emperor 118 CE died 138 CE

    Born in Jan 24, 76 AD, Hadrian succeeded Trajan as Roman emperor in 117 AD and strove to unify and consolidate Rome's vast empire.

    (***)We have used the name Palestine, which Roman Emperor Hadrian placed on the country of Israel in 135 A.D., for so long that it has become common usage.

    https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Hadrian+and+Israel

    I just hope that the readers can differentiate between the dates...
    I have put two links for an in depth perusal of the two eras Herodotus and Hadrian.
     
  11. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Philistia was on the coast and named for the Philistines.. (Remember Samson?)

    Philistia was originally North Coast Canaanites called Ugarit. The Hebrews borrowed many of their myths, writings and poetry. When the sea people arrived they migrated inland to the Judean hills.
     
  12. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Our knowledge of the ancient history is largely based on one source, the Old Testament.The challenge arises from the need to distinguish genuine historical information from matters of faith, particularly when there is very little available external information to corroborate details in the Old Testament.

    Ample evidence exist that the land was inhabited by other people before the invasion + mass slaughter/genocide perpetrated by marauding Hebrew tribes - who claimed that the land was promised to them by their god - . Yaweh..:roll:

    .Modern knowledge of Canaan’s history and culture is derived from both archeological excavations and from literary sources. Excavations, mainly in the 20th century, have unearthed the remains of many important Canaanite cities, including Bet Sheʾan, Gezer, Hazor, Jericho, Jerusalem, Lachish, Megiddo, and Shechem. The most important literary sources for the region’s history are the Old Testament; the Ras Shamra texts discovered at the site of ancient Ugarit, on the north coast of Syria; and the Amarna Letters, a set of dispatches sent in the 14th century bc by governors of Palestinian cities and Syrian cities to their Egyptian overlords

    ====


    Map of the Nations of Canaan Before the Hebrew Invasion.
    The Old Testament mentions a lot about Canaan, the half of Palestine to the west of the Jordan. This name "Canaan" has been found in Egyptian inscriptions of the New Kingdom, and also in the Tell el-Amarna letters. The Canaanites mostly lived in the plains (the coastal strip and near the Jordan.

    Map-of-Canaanite-Nations.gif


    Palestine_Time-0f-Conquest.png

    (click to enlarge)

    ..
    btw - when did the Habiru, Hapiru, and 'Apiru — start identifying themselves as "Israelites" ? .

    ....
     
  13. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Before the Colonists / invaders Came to Canaan


    Early History of the Region . . . Before the Colonists Landed

    From Jews for Justice in the Middle East

    Early History of the Region
    Before the Hebrews first migrated there around 1800 B.C., the land of Canaan was occupied by Canaanites.
    "Between 3000 and 1100 B.C., Canaanite civilization covered what is today Israel, the West Bank, Lebanon and much of Syria and Jordan...Those who remained in the Jerusalem hills after the Romans expelled the Jews [in the second century A.D.] were a potpourri: farmers and vineyard growers, pagans and converts to Christianity, descendants of the Arabs, Persians, Samaritans, Greeks and old Canaanite tribes."

    Marcia Kunstel and Joseph Albright, "Their Promised Land."

    The present-day Palestinians' ancestral heritage

    "But all these [different peoples who had come to Canaan] were additions, sprigs grafted onto the parent tree...And that parent tree was Canaanite...[The Arab invaders of the 7th century A.D.] made Moslem converts of the natives, settled down as residents, and intermarried with them, with the result that all are now so completely Arabized that we cannot tell where the Canaanites leave off and the Arabs begin."

    Illene Beatty, "Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan."

    The Jewish kingdoms were only one of many periods in ancient Palestine

    "The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart[B

    ]..[Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David's conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C. to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.[/B]C[., we arrive at [only] a 414 year Jewish rule."]

    Illene Beatty, "Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan."


    .....
     
  14. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    And how what you just wrote to me contradicts what I wrote?

    Of course Philistia was on the coast on the area of Gaza, and Philistia was the place where Philistines were lived in, but still when Herodotous came to the Land of Israel, he came from the caost of Gaza, the area that its name was Philistia, so Herosotous heard from the locals in Gaza that the area of Gaza was named Philistia so he decided to name all of the Land of Israel Philistia. It was in the 5th century BC.
    Now, the name Syria-Palestine was first used by Hadrian, the Roman emperor, after the Bar Kochba's revolt to exterminated the name Judea, it is the history, those are historical facts.
     
  15. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    First of all, in the 11th century BC, Ramses the 3rd documanted the defeat of the Philistines by the Egyptean army, a defeat that made the Philistines came to Gaza and to inhabetad there.

    Secondly, if the only source you have about ancient history is the Old Testament how did you write about Ras Shamra that this large ciry in Syria didnt mention in the Old Testament?

    The Israelites came to Cna'an in the 12th century BC an Jusoah conqoured several towns that after it became the land of the 12 tribes. the Israelites never conqoured whole of the Land of Israel until the time of David that he conqoured the rest of the land.
    There was no genocide/slaughter by the Israelites, but there was wars, wars are not genocides!! and if you are saying that your only source about the ancient history so even there described wars not genocides.

    1. Cna'anite cities that were descovered in the 20th century were no "Palestinin" cities!! this is just historiclly wrong!! the first time that Ras Shamra was mentioned was in the Ugarit's certificates in the 15th century BC, but in the Bible there was never Ras Shamra mentioned!!

    2. once again, if you are relaying on the Old Testament as your source, so in the Bible Ras Shamra was never mentioned!!

    3. in Amarna Letters it was describing the gifts as estates and animals to Egypt. in Amarna Letters there was never mentioned the word "Palestine" or "Palestinians", only Cna'anite tribes!! this is according to archeological excevitions.
    In Ras Shamra texts it was describing there the lifes of Ras Shamra kingdom. In those texts there were never mentioned the word "Palestine" or "Palestinians"!! the first used of the word "Palestine" was by Hadrian in the 2nd century AD.

    Once again, Cna'anite tribes are not "Palestinians"!! it is historiclly wrong!!

    Habiru started indentifying themselves as Israelites from the 12th Century BC.




    Ok and...? Philistia is a place in the area of Gaza! it even described in the Old Testament, your source about the ancient history.

    If you would explain this part more it would be easier to replay! as far as I read in this part, it was the history of the region, and..? what is you point in this part?


    Ok and...? stil what is you poing in that part also?

    BTW- the Arab inveders in the 7th century AD are not the same as the Cna'anites!! you are mixing two different period of times in the history of the region!

    The kingdom of David and Solomon was created in 1000 BC until 930 BC, BUT the kingdoms of David and Solomon was continued to exist until 586 BC.
    Which means after a simple math the entire period that the kingdoms of David and Solomon endured for 424 years!! not for 73 years as you assumed.
     
  16. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    No.. Herodotus wrote about Syria-Palestine in 500 BC.

    Hadrian wasn't around until the first century AD.
     
  17. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    The Arab Marauders of the Middle East played that tune before...

    They started by saying they are the descendents of the <PHILISTNES> but when they realized how ludicrous this is since the Philistines came from the Agean sea mostly from Crete, they turned their back on this false pretense and forcefully declared they are the descendents of the Canaanite.

    The Arab Marauders of the 7 (seventh Century) cannot claim any other ancestry for Mohammad was the one that initiated the invasion of the surrounding Lands by the sword of Islam from Arabia proper... reached the Atlantic Ocean and Eastward the Pacific Ocean...
     
  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Arabs were in Palestine long before Islam.. They migrated in successive waves as far north as Babylon ten thousand years ago.

    The Marsh Arabs arrived from the Eastern Coast of Arabia some 7,000 years ago.

    You can't be honest and limit the whole history of the region and the people who live there to Jewish history which is largely fictional.
     
  19. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    Both Arabs and Israelites were named in same ancient Egyptian tablet meaning both existed at the same time - meaning one did not contain the other, the Arabs were not Israelite succesors and both migrated from one place to another. as for the Palestinians, they define themselves as Arab - not Israelite or whatever, and that's all that matters.
     
  20. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Huh ? "no genocide/slaughter by Hebrews/Israelites " ?

    Well , I wasn't there but according to most records it did happen. A quick search confirms my belief/ opinion.

    "The Book of Joshua describes little more than a genocidal campaign against the unsuspecting inhabitants of Canaan. The Canaanites never attacked the Israelites, never enslaved the Israelites, and aren't described as ever having done anything to warrant mistreatment of any sort. Their only crime was living in the wrong place at the wrong time &#8212; land promised to the Israelites by God at the time when God decided to make good on that promise.

    (the invading Hebrew tribes wanted the land )

    Commanded to Commit Genocide

    It's impossible to know the moral or mental disposition of the Israelites and in fact the text doesn't really delve into their psychology at all; the length and breadth of their roles consists of obeying or disobeying Yahweh. It is thus to Yahweh that we turn to understand the genocidal actions of the Israelites. Through much of the relevant text only Yahweh is presented as being truly active and, as one might expect, all of the impetus for genocide indeed comes from Yahweh.

    Already in Exodus, Yahweh promises that the Canaanites would "melt away" and that he would drive away the Canaanites when the Israelites arrive. By Deuteronomy, Yahweh says:

    "And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
    (Deuteronomy 7:2-3)

    Similar instructions appear in subsequent texts and they are clear that not only are the Israelites to make total war on the inhabitants, but they are also prohibited from entering into any sort of peace treaty with any group. There is to be no mercy for anyone, only death.

    The Israelites got some practice in this by making war against the Midianites:

    And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. ...And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. ...

    And Moses said unto them...Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
    ( Numbers 31:7-18)

    So were the young virgin girls lucky that they weren't slaughtered like the rest of their people, or were they unlucky that they were essentially taken as sex slaves to be used to satiate the lusts of the soldiers who slaughtered their fathers, mothers, brothers, and older sisters?

    The Book of Joshua makes it clear that the Israelites get to the murderous work of genocide and become quite efficient at it:

    And all the cities of those kings, and all the kings of them, did Joshua take, and smote them with the edge of the sword, and he utterly destroyed them, as Moses the servant of the Lord commanded. ...every man they smote with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them, neither left they any to breathe. As the Lord commanded Moses his servant, so did Moses command Joshua, and so did Joshua; he left nothing undone of all that the Lord commanded Moses.
    (Joshua 11:12-15)

    Raphael Lemkin argues in Axis Rule in Occupied Europe that one of the distinguishing features of genocide is not simply mass killing, which happens frequently in war, but the goal-oriented mass killing that is designed to destroy or culture or society with the purpose of replacing it entirely. This is definitely what we see happening in Joshua: the Israelites kill all the people in order to destroy their culture then move in to take over their fields, vineyards, cities, and lands.



    Bullied and Threatened into Genocide ( ? hehehe)

    To be fair to the Israelites, it should be noted that they may have been operating from more than a little fear. Given their experience of what Yahweh did to their enemies, did they really want to become Yahweh's enemies too? Probably not &#8212; and Yahweh certainly made threats about what would happen if they Israelites didn't do as they were told:

    But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell. Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them. ( Numbers 33:55-56)

    This is of course not the only threat issued to the Israelites, but it is the one which most closely associates Yahweh's actions against the Canaanites with possible action against them: if they don't follow orders to commit genocide, Yahweh might decide to cause a bit of genocide against them instead.

    This doesn't entirely let the Israelites of the hook for their actions, but insofar as their guilt is mitigated at all, it's magnified many times over for Yahweh. Not only did Yahweh order genocide to be committed and not only did he actively assist to ensure that genocide was committed, but he threatened his thugs that if they didn't blindly obey their murderous orders then he'd do the same to them later on.

    And even that's not the worst...



    Ensuring that Genocide Occurs

    Committing genocide against the indigenous people of Canaan was made easier by the fact that they were willing to fight for their ancestral homes
    . It's easier to slaughter people who are trying to kill you, even if you're the one who started the fight. Had the Canaanites tried to welcome the newcomers and pursue peaceful treaties, genocide might have been harder. Even the most fanatical religious zealot has a harder time slaughtering unarmed, peaceful people.

    Apparently Yahweh thought of this and took steps to ensure that nothing like this would interfere with his plans:

    There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all other they took in battle. For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favor, but that he might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses. ( Joshua 11:19-20)

    So Yahweh "hardened" the hearts of the Canaanites to guarantee that they would "come against Israel in battle." Had he not done that, some of the Canaanites might have chosen a more peaceful solution and the Israelites might have been tempted to befriend them. Instead, they slaughtered everyone.

    Where else have we seen this? Not long before, Yahweh did the same thing with the pharaoh in Egypt: every time the pharaoh was about to let the Israelites god, Yahweh hardened his heart to ensure that he would say "no" and keep them a while longer as slaves. This guaranteed that Yahweh would get to kill all the firstborn sons of all the Egyptians as a show of psychopathic power.

    This is thus a persistent pattern for Yahweh: order one group of humans to harm a second group of humans, then take away the free will of the second ground and force them to act in a way that ensures conflict can occur. This sounds remarkably like a child torturing small animals and we all know what happens to kids like that

    ----

    -----
    Mmmmm...
     
  21. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    Herodotus born in 484 BC until 425 BC, which means that Herodotus werent around much in 500 BC.

    You know that wiki is not a relaible source right?


    The Arabs first came to the Land of Israel 634 AD. The Islam were invented in 622 AD, which means that the first foot of an Arab one that came to the Land of Israel were 12 years after Islam!!

    Do you know that the Marsh Arabs Were located in the area of Mesopotamian Marshes, they were irrelevent to the Land of Israel! which means if the Arabs today are those Marsh Arabs so they are belong to the South coast of Iraq, near the Iranian border.

    Once again, do you know that Wiki is not a relaible source right?

    The Cna'anite tribes were in the 17th century BC Bedouin and in the 15th century BC until 1000 BC that the Cna'anites were left the Land of Israel.
    The Cna'anites werent Arabs and the Arabs today are not the desentens of the Cna'anites!!


    The word "genocide" is irrelevent if you mention the ancient history!! because the word "genocide" is a new world of the today!!
    The phsicology of today is irrelevnt ig you are mention the ancient hisotry! it is referring to a different things and eras!!


    So where in all that part of your comment is refering to genocide? because I didnt really sew that word.
    The behavier of today and the concepts of today are not the concepts and behaviers of the ancient times!! you cant compare the two!! it cant be compared!! it is like you would compare about the behaviers and the concepts of the 30's and the concepts and behaviers of today- are them the same? no.

    BTW- The British people, that you are part of them, were slaughtered thousend of Indians, they were stole natural resources from India, every time the Indian did actions against the British, the British army entered to cities and started to fire a machine guns on the innocent population, it was first began after the queen Victoria was elected in 1837, until the 20th century!! Probably you forgot your own history ah?



    WAIT MINUTE!!! did you write that it was war?? I thought you wrote that the Isreaites did a genocide!!
    Do you know that those two word are not the same right?

    In the 21th century. the UK and the US went to war against Al Qaeda and while they were fighting against that terror organization, they kill an innocent people. So did that were a war or a genocide? if that was a genocide for you so here is a second question: why dont you condemn or condemned the "genicide" that your own nation did?? furtheremore, if you are not condemning your own nation's actions so how can you condemn other's actions? it a little bit hipocracy!! you are an hipocrate!!


    Do you know that the Midians are not Arabs right?? you are once again mixing up history!!
    if you want to talk about Arabs i will talk with you about them but if you want to talk about other subject like the Bible, it's fine and i would talk with you about it but you cant mixed the Arabs with the Bible, it is just not historiclly right.
    Furtheremore the war against Midian was after alot of attacks from the Midian's army, the Israelites suffer alot of attacks and because of that they had to went to war against Midian. It was described in the Bible, but probably you missed that part!


    If you would read the Bible again you could noticed that Moses died long before the war against Midian, eproxemetly 100 years from the death of Moses until the war of Midian.


    If you are also now talking about Midian so just to make it clear that in the Exudos the Israelites suffered alot of attacks from Midian so they had to act against, to defend themselves right? like pretty much every people on those earth did all across history!!




     
  22. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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  23. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    it doesnt care if it was in the 500 BC or 400 BC? really? because a 100 years difference is a hack a lot of times, you cant say something that happend in 500 BC when it was much after.

    As I said, Herodotus made the Land of Israel as Philistia because of the locals he met in Gaza, the place he was arrived from, and he make that generalezation to show that whole of what he just called "philistia" was the land of the Philistines, not "Plastinians", and because Philistines are not longer existed so you can assume that the "Palestinians" are the desendes of Philistines and thats why they need to be in the Land of Israel, furtheremore, if they are the desendens of Philistines so they belong to Greece and Cyprus, not to the Land of Israel.

    Abraham was the son of Terah that was part of the descendants of Shem thatof course was the son of Noah. He wanted to arrive to Cna'an but didnt make it and decided to live in Haran, a place in Turkey, so if the Arabs were the desendans of Abraham so they belong to Turkey, because that was the place he was.
    According to Judaism, he was the father of the 12 tribes and Ismael, that in the Arabs are refering them (=Ismael) as Midians, Amalekites and Adomites. But as we all no just to refer something as is it doesnt enough! you need facts and proofs, things that Arabs cant provide to make their claim correct. But the Jews have facts as archaeological facts on their claim that the 12 tribes are part of the Jews. As far as I know Archaeology didnt found evidance to the Arabs's claim.
    Furtheremore, the name "Arabs", according to Assyrian documents, was the nickname for nomads!! and according to Assyrian, Hebrew and Arabian documents, the name "Arabs" or "Al Arab" was the name that the nomads called themselves and it wasnt a nickname that other called those nomads. SO if MIdian's people were Arabs, it means they were nomads, and that's of course, once again, according to Assyrian, Hebrew and Arabian documents.
     
  24. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Palestinians are not descended from the Philistines.. they are descended from Canaanites, Arabs, Syrian, Greeks, Turks, Crusaders and everyone else who has lived there for 2000 years.

    My mistake.. the author wasn't Terwiliger.. it was Wilfred Theisinger.. Senior moment there.

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Marsh-Arabs-Penguin-Classics/dp/0141442085

    Not all Arabs were nomads.. You should probably read up on the Bedouin and their symbiotic relationship with their extended families who were settled people and how they survived.
     
  25. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    I knew I had to explain BC vs AD at some point to those that cannot grasp how the calendar did work then.
    Herodotus was born 484 BC and died 425 BC (lived 59 years) the callendar was going backward to the birth of Jesus.

    Question: "What is the meaning of BC and AD (B.C. and A.D.)?"

    Answer:It is commonly thought that B.C. stands for &#8220;before Christ&#8221; and A.D. stands for &#8220;after death.&#8221; This is only half correct. How could the year <1 B.C>. have been &#8220;before Christ&#8221; and <A.D. 1> been &#8220;after death&#8221;? B.C. does stand for &#8220;before Christ.&#8221; A.D. actually stands for the Latin phrase <Anno Domini,> which means &#8220;in the year of our Lord.&#8221;

    The B.C./A.D. dating system is not taught in the Bible. It actually was not fully implemented and accepted until several centuries after Jesus&#8217; death.

    It is interesting to note that the purpose of the B.C./A.D. dating system was to make the< birth of Jesus Christ the dividing point of world history>. However, when the B.C./A.D. system was being calculated, they actually made a mistake in pinpointing the year of Jesus&#8217; birth. Scholars later discovered that Jesus was actually born <around 6&#8212;4 B.C.>, not <A.D. 1>. That is not the crucial issue. The birth, life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Christ are the &#8220;turning points&#8221; in world history. It is fitting, therefore, that Jesus Christ is the separation of &#8220;old&#8221; and &#8220;new.&#8221; B.C. was &#8220;before Christ,&#8221; and since His birth, we have been living &#8220;in the year of our Lord.&#8221;

    Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/BC-AD.html#ixzz3EqfdFA5h
     

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