Sound is just vibrations. I'm a scientist not a philosopher. I know that sound can be measured without being heard. We can pick it up with various instruments. You are talking philosophy, not science.
Sound causes things to vibrate. Is the vibration of sound just an atmospheric reaction to 'what sound is' instead of being 'what sound is?' The vacuum of space means there's no atmosphere, does that mean it's got a supersonic barrier that's really high that sound travels so fast, it appears silent?
Sound is a product of energy and waves as well as human interpretation through biological interaction. Sound "waves" exist whether we hear them or not.....think of the tree that fell in the woods.
The vibrations are going through atoms/molecules. Sound CANNOT transmit through space. Also, sound slows down as the medium gets thinner. The speed of sound in air is much lower than the speed of sound in water, for example.
Because there is nothing in the vacuum of space to vibrate against the sound wave, means there is no sound. If a tree fell in woods without an atmosphere to react with the sound, and it doesn't make a sound because of the lack of atmosphere meaning it's like the vacuum of space; does energy pass that would make a sound if it hit an atmosphere to hear it?
Sound energy is composed of vibrations of molecules, so no, in no atmosphere there is no sound or even potential for sound.
Not sure anyone already made this point already Sound is not an objective thing. Sound is one of the ways that our mind interprets vibration. In this case the vibration is sensed in our inner ear and transmitted to our brain where our consciousness interprets it as sound. If our fingers feel vibration, it is not interpreted as sound. If we blow a dog whistle, it is not interpreted as sound. If we go to the dr and get a sonogram it is not interpreted as sound. Btw, our eye perceive different vibrations which our mind interprets as light.
Of course sound is an objective thing. We can measure it via microphones, etc. We can categorize it by wavelength, amplitude, etc. Our perception of sound isn't an objective thing, which is what you are talking about.
g objectively there are vibrations in the air Those vibrations can be measured But sound is what we hear What. Sound does a sonogram make? How about the sound of an ultrasonic cleaner?
What term would you use for the waves used in sonograms or ultrasonic cleaners? What term would you use for the waves dogs can hear but humans can't?
I think sound is a pressure wave through a medium - air, water, skin, whatever. At some frequencies and volumes, various animals can detect pressure waves through feet, ears and other body parts. It seems weird to me that we would limit "sound" to a frequency and volume range that we believe it would be at least theoretically possible for a human (or other animal?) to detect using ears. If your super stereo has a tweeter that can emit a pressure wave that is too high for a human to hear, does that pressure wave become "not sound"? If it has a woofer that vibrates your car, but is too low a frequency for your ears does that become "not sound"?
What we call it is linguistic convention. Since people are familiar with the term sound, and since they are the same vibrations.... the word ultra sound is conventionally used. However in the electromagnetic spectrum, we use entirely different terms for different wave frequencies (such as micro waves, or infrared radiation) .... as i said, the terms that are used for various different wave frequencies are are a matter of linguistic convention Btw, for echocardiogram What is an echocardiogram? An echocardiogram (echo) is a test that uses high frequency sound waves (ultrasound) to make pictures of your heart. The test is also called echocardiography or diagnostic cardiac ultrasound. Quick facts An echo uses sound waves to create pictures of your heart’s chambers, valves, walls and the blood vessels (aorta, arteries, veins) attached to your heart. A probe called a transducer is passed over your chest. The probe produces sound waves that bounce off your heart and “echo” back to the probe. These waves are changed into pictures viewed on a video monitor. An echo can’t harm you. As you can see, they use several terms “high frequency sound waves”. And “ultrasound”. Sound waves, high frequency sound waves, or ultra sound...Which is it? They are all the same... all sound waves, only at a higher frequencies..l like a super dog whistle, What you choose to call these waves is simply linguistic convenience
But, lets take the example of light... we see light, Light is electromagnetic radiation So if it is electromagnetic radiation and we can detect it... then it must be light.., same as the logic previously applied to in this thread sound waves Since light is electromagnetic radiation since xrays are electromagnetic radiation And since we can detect xrays Therefore xrays must be light?
I have no problem with categorizing the kind of sound - like we categorize the electromagnetic spectrum. But, note that it is all still considered sound, as it clearly distinguishes a different kind of wave - a pressure wave vs an electromagnetic wave. The "can't harm you" part is specific to medicine, where significant restrictions exist. Our military blows out the eardrums of dolphins, whales, orcas and other water animals with ears with its tests of "active sonar" which uses echoes to map shorelines and look for intruders - leaving those animals incapable of finding food, etc.
Well, electromagnetic radiation is the full spectrum descriptor. Light, x-ray, and other terms denote pieces of that spectrum with somewhat fuzzy boundaries. For example, light usually includes more than what humans can detect with our eyes. Maybe one could look at "pressure wave" as the full spectrum descriptor and "sound" as a piece of that with fuzzy boundaries. Still, I think "sound" gets used more commonly as the descriptor. "Sound" is used when describing sonograms, sonar, etc. We don't tell the patient that their sonogram is safe, because it's just a pressure wave.
Yes, there are certainly different types of waves, And sound is unarguably a type of pressure wave I am only making the point that sound is a mental phenomena of our consciousness. It is our mental mapping of pressure waves of certain frequency We hear with our mind The same way that we SEE with our mind In both cases electrical signals are generated, then the electrical signals are transmitted to our brain, which interprets those signals via consciousness as sound and light If we had no ears... sound would not exist for us... only pressure waves
Yes, it is commonly the case that we adopt linguistic conventions based upon just such convenience. For example... what temperature is “hot”? Hot is an term that we all understand, and it refers to a specific reality But hotness is based on our subjective experience Making that distinction is not saying that hotness has no reality It is just pointing that hotness is a subjective experience of our consciouness We are essentially deaf to ultrasound What if you were deaf to “sound” What if we were all deaf to sound Would sound still exist? I argue that if we were all deaf... pressure waves would still exist But what we know as sound would not exist
I do get your point. If we were all profoundly deaf, our experience would be different. But, the phenomenon would still exist, would be significant in our lives, and we would have a name for it. Humans have sensory capability to detect a small range of heat. But, the full range of heat is far beyond what humans can experience without irreparable harm. So "hot" is used far beyond human experience - like one might use "sound".
Sonogram is ultrasonic, which means it has a frequency of above the range of human hearing. That isn't sound, but a vibration.
Ultrasound. Same with dogs, ultrasound. There's also infrasound, which is low frequency that we can't hear. Elephants can, though.
Yes, I'm just pointing out that our names for these waves includes that they are sound even if we can't hear them.
Thanks for confirming that sound is what we can hear Sound is what we perceive... which happens in our as the result of electric signal transmitted from our inner ear. We cannot hear above about 20,000 cycles per second So i guess 30,000 cycles per second is not sound... at least for us.... it is still sound for dogs. In the end, sound is what organisms perceive. It is a part of our conscious experience. It is definitely an effect of real vibrations, but it is not the same thing as those vibrations.... which are essentially the same whether we hear sound or not
Energy breaking through atmosphere is what we perceive. But what is sound made out of in order to do that? I think sound can exist without observation.
Lets try a different approach Ears hear sound by turning waves into electromagnetic signals that are sent to the brain A microphone does a similar thing but sends the signal to a cd (or a wax cylinder) Is the cd sound? Perhaps a representation of sound? Ok, before the cd there was an electric signal from the microphone... is that sound? Perhaps that is also a representation of sound? But then what is the electric signal from the ear.... is that sound, or a representation of sound? Ok, now lets suppose that we use a computer to generate an electric signal... is that sound? Well lets suppose that the computer generated electric signal is fed directly to the ears electric system... (this is now possible for deaf people).... no physical air waves are ever generated, just electric signals... but the deaf person hears something... does he hear sound? If so, how is that possible since no physical sound was involved in the process? Btw, here is how cochlear implants for the deaf work A cochlear implant is a small, complex electronic device that can help to provide a sense of sound to a person who has severe to profound hearing loss. The implant consists of an external portion that sits behind the ear and a second portion that is surgically placed under the skin (see figure). An implant has the following parts: A microphone, which picks up sound from the environment. A speech processor, which selects and arranges sounds picked up by the microphone. A transmitter and receiver/stimulator, which receive signals from the speech processor and convert them into electric impulses. An electrode array, which is a group of electrodes that collects the impulses from the stimulator and sends them to different regions of the auditory nerve. Obviously the cochlear implant system is designed to listen to and transmit the vibrations of air waves that we call “sound”. But there is no technical reason that the electric signal for the cochlear implant need to originate with vibrating air. It could as easily be a tone created by an electronic synthesizer that musicians use. But when does sound come into existence if there is nothing but a synthesized electric signal....? And how do we know what a person with a cochlear implant “hears”?
That we couldn't hear the sound doesn't mean it's not there. We can't hear radio frequencies no matter how low, but they are there. Speak into the megaphone and and the frequencies and harmonics of your voice are impressed on the microphone and amplified, but the other end of the megaphone is in space. The sound has to go through the megaphone, but it can no longer be heard. That's what I think.
