What is Sound?

Discussion in 'Science' started by The Rhetoric of Life, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Sound exists whether we can hear it or not. It's just a matter of terminology.
     
  2. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    The sound would stop. It can't go through outer space. It's not like it would suddenly reemerge in a straight line after the vacuum (space is gone). The vibrations simply stop, as there is nothing to go through.
     
  3. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pressure Waves exist whether we can hear them or not
    Pressure waves that we cannot hear do not create sound
     
  4. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    You have to keep in mind what sound is: Pressure waves in a gas, liquid, or a solid. In the case of a megaphone, there would be no sound produced because the speaker would not be in contact with a gas. There is no media. So you can't create pressure waves.
     
  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    There is nothing for the pressure wave to exist in. You can't create a pressure wave in a vacuum.
     
  6. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly true.
    You blow a horn in space.... no sound

    And if no humans had ears.... we would call pressure waves as pressure waves. .. we would not differentiate pressure waves between 20 and 20k hz as sound waves.... all pressure waves would be pressure waves
     
  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Well, not really. If you BLOW a horn, YOU are supplying air. But the air leaving the horn does not have millions of other molecules with which to collide and disperse. So more than not, the air coming out would tend to travel in straight lines. If you put a microphone or pressure transducer in the stream of air molecules coming out of the horn, you could measure the sound from the horn. In principle, you could hear it if set up properly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  8. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Out of curiosity.... lets say we blow a horn here on earth
    Compression waves are formed
    They spread out
    And some enter your ear...
    Then what happens... how do you hear?
     
  9. LazyPeanurd

    LazyPeanurd Newly Registered

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    Drop an object into a body of water, and watch the waves. This is the same kind of mechanical energy of sound waves that propagate in the air, except air is much thinner and the waves travel much faster.

    As for sound in space, there is no "sound" as we know it down here in our atmosphere. Consider this, however. A speaker playing music in space will still vibrate if it is strong enough to withstand the elements. In fact, in space it vibrates with less resistance. A speaker in our atmosphere actually endures a certain amount of resistance because it vibrates against the air surrounding it, which creates the sound waves we hear. In space, the speaker would vibrate more freely because there is no air that it has to move.

    The energy is dissipated as heat, in the form of electromagnetic radiation. If you had an infrared camera, you would be able to see that heat energy. The energy is actually small. Even with a nice 25-watt speaker, you're talking about 25 Joules per second. One Joule is the typical energy released as heat by a person at rest every 1/60 seconds. So a 25 Watt speaker would produce a little less than half that amount of human heat energy, IF it was constantly at its maximum power output.
     
  10. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm sitting this one out - it's too complicado for me!
     
  11. LazyPeanurd

    LazyPeanurd Newly Registered

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    It's really quite beautiful.



    And this is just one ear. This doesn't talk about sound localization, which is a trick your brain can do using both ears to tell where sound is coming from.
     
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  12. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    I gather our eardrum is like a needle on a record player, and nerves are like wires connecting the eardrum to the brain - which is like a processor and hard drive to say the least.
    But this is all organic matter, like a flower. Why do some people tell me plants can hear things?



    Do plants get energy from sound like they do from light, and we're mis reading the signals and think plants can hear?
    What is this energy that makes sound possible?
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  13. LazyPeanurd

    LazyPeanurd Newly Registered

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    I've heard the suggestion that plants can feel, not that they can hear. That's a new one. I don't think either is true.
     
  14. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    I've heard they can hear since the 1980's.

    So, this is just taken for granted to me.

    But what is this energy that breaks through atmosphere known as sound?
    Might plants react to the energy of the sound?
    Is sound a particle like light is made up of photons, what is sound made up of?
     
  15. LazyPeanurd

    LazyPeanurd Newly Registered

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    Did you read my post? I spend a good amount of time explaining sound earlier. Sound is not a particle. It's a mechanical phenomenon.
     
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  16. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for your excellent postings on this topic

    I would like to summarize what you posted in order to clarify the points i have previously been trying to make on this thread

    When something vibrates at certain frequencies and the environment is conducive... the vibrating object can create compression waves

    In the context of human hearing, these compression waves are formed and dispersed in the atmosphere around the vibrating object. These compression waves of specific frequencies in the Air are called “sound waves”

    These waves can enter our ears. And though a complex process, these sound waves are turned into electric signals that can be sent by nerves to our brain neurons. In the brain, these electric signals are synthesized by our consciousness into the perceived phenomena of 3-d sound.

    “Sound waves” exist independently of our perception
    Sound itself is a synthetic creation of our brain which interprets electrical signals caused by sound waves as part of our brains creation of our experience of consciousness
     
  17. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    These are intriguing, yet highly speculative ideas. It is certainly true that plants have a sophisticated relationship with their environment. Much more sophisticated than we ha previously realized.

    And, as we have learned new things about the sophisticated interactions of plants with their environment.... who knows what we might discover in the future.

    I agree that it is difficult to image that plants “hear” or “feel” as we understand those words... although apparently plants can detect chemicals emitted by other plants in response to events like insect attacks
     
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  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is there sound in space?

    Judge for yourself.
     
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  19. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    They don't measure the pressure waves directly. They measure the magnetic field that is responding to the sound waves in the sun.

    https://www.iflscience.com/space/how-scientists-listen-sun/
     
  20. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    That's not correct. You are talking about the psychological definition. In physics, sound is any pressure wave that propagates through a media.
     
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  21. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are right
     
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  22. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Wow! You don't see that said often on this forum!!! LOL.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Ears and microphones turn sound waves into electromagnetic waves carried by wires or nerves. At that point they aren't sound waves any more, as they are in the electromagnetic spectrum, not the sound spectrum. Our brains don't process sound waves - they process electromagnetic waves carried by nerves.

    Speakers (including cochlear implants) turn electromagnetic spectrum into the sound spectrum by vibrating a diaphragm creating sound waves. (Cochlear implants also have a microphone side.)
     
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  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I was listening to a physicist discussing our early universe.

    He referred to sound being an important ingredient in the early universe at a time when our universe was dense enough that there could be sound throughout the universe. That is, the universe wasn't as thin as the vacuum we have today, so sound could permeate the universe, making a difference in how it formed.

    I don't see sound as referring to a particular portion of the pressure wave spectrum that might be detectable by the ears of some life form that has ears. Would we consider bats as not hearing sound? Etc.

    In physics, sound refers to all frequencies. It's a type of radiation. What human ears can detect is a short frequency interval of that spectrum.
     
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  25. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    C
    Yes... that was my point. What enters the brain is an electric signal, albeit stimulated by sound waves. What we actually heat is synthesized from these electric signals. This is why i am differentiating between sound, and sound waves. If the question is “what is sound?”.... the answer is what our brain synthesizes from a distinctly different thing :”sound waves”
    Will
    Not to quibble about this
    But cochlear implants directly stimulate the nerve.... they do not vibrate anything

    How does a cochlear implant work?
    A cochlear implant is very different from a hearing aid. Hearing aids amplify sounds so they may be detected by damaged ears. Cochlear implants bypass damaged portions of the ear and directly stimulate the auditory nerve. Signals generated by the implant are sent by way of the auditory nerve to the brain, which recognizes the signals as sound. Hearing through a cochlear implant is different from normal hearing and takes time to learn or relearn. However, it allows many people to recognize warning signals, understand other sounds in the environment, and understand speech in person or over the telephone.​
     

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