What should children be taught?

Discussion in 'Education' started by hiimjered, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. Gaymom

    Gaymom New Member

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    So that leaves creating an all inclusive program in the schools. They cease to be schools, but become child rearing institutions. This may be just what we need today in our society. Infact, I'd love to be on the design team that sets up the first one. The kicker??? Government funding. No one wants to do the job, but no one wants to fund the solution, either.
     
  2. Gaymom

    Gaymom New Member

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    Given the current parameters, materials, classroom management, and time....it realistically can't be done. I taught for 34 years, my mom for 35. I consider us both excellent teachers who spent time and money outside of school to give our kids everything we could. It was never enough. Kids who have pulled themselves out of bad situtions educated themselves outside of classtime as well. And BRAVO to them.
    If you want us to be able to raise these children when their parents cannot, we need time/structure/money. We need to create a 7am to 7pm program which includes meals...homework time...no tv or video games...mentors to take a special interest in these kids...clean clothes and warm coats and shoes...
    You get the idea....but would you vote to fund it??? Probably not if your kid wasn't involved.
    Americans are short-sighted. Poorly educated and fed children are tomorrows voters and adult citizens. Is this who you want making decisions for our country???
     
  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Well...I don't know what it takes but I know that a public education system designed to require parental involvement and homework, which is what we have today, does not work for a large percentage of kids. If we know this is not working in these situations, but stay on the same course, what does this say about educators?

    Funding of any program is always an issue. If people refuse to fund then people get what they don't want which is pretty self-serving and stupid...
     
  4. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    What is wrong with 8am to 5PM Monday through Friday 50 weeks per year?

    What is wrong with schools providing breakfast, lunch and snacks?

    What is wrong with TV and video games and smart phones at prescribed times during the school day?

    Whatever public education system that is a significant improvement over the current system, I will certainly vote to fund it no matter our kids are long out of school...
     
  5. Gaymom

    Gaymom New Member

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    8 to 5 would still leave lots of kids home without supervision, a danger I believe, but not absolutely necessary to the program. You realize I was outlining my ultimate dream program.

    The meals....definitely.

    NO TV/VIDEO GAMES/ETC....they get enough of that outside of school.

    You might fund it. I would surely fund it. But it is hard enough to get a miliage passed for a traditional program. This is one place where voters get to say YES or NO. Mostly they like to say no.
     
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Public education should not care about home supervision.

    If parents want home supervision then parents can pay for it at private companies or pay the schools to provide this service until 7PM by using a private sector service.

    You can't have kids locked in schools for 9 hours a day and not allow them some personal time for TV, video games, smart phones, music, etc.

    I will vote to fund public education which is an improvement over what we have and effective for the needs of the USA.

    IMO voters should not be asked to vote on funding public education. Because most voters don't give a rip and don't get involved to understand the education system. Let the voters vote on the mission/goal of public education and let government carry out that task. BTW; another reason shows up on this forum in which only a 'few' are involved in these education threads...
     
  7. The_Owl

    The_Owl New Member

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    I think it would be a good idea for High Schools to implement online classes on subjects that students might be interested in, but the schools are too small or are not funded well enough to have them.

    For example. The school I went to only taught spanish as a second language. That would be useful if I wanted to work in a job where I needed this skill, but what if I wanted to learn French or Latin? I would of been out of luck.

    I believe it is not only a schools obligation to educate students, but also spark interest and give kids the tools they need to do what they want.
     
  8. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    I agree. It would be nice if children were taught that our federal Congress is only delegated the power to Tax, to Provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States.

     
  9. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    From one perspective, what excuse could civil persons have for staying poor if they could no longer claim to be in poverty due to recourse to unemployment compensation that corrects for the inefficiency rate in the market for labor, of a "natural" rate of unemployment in our mixed-market political-economy. Increasing the circulation of money in our money based markets could engender new equilibriums in our markets as they move toward more full employment of resources in our money based markets.

    Providing for the general welfare should be considered a form of investment and should be required to engender a positive multiplier effect on our economy. Encouraging private sector market activity through public sector intervention in our money based markets should also help secure rights in acquiring and possessing private property under our republican form of Government.
     
  10. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    From my perspective, it may merely be a simple leadership failure at that level. There is nothing denying or disparaging municipalities from establishing their own well regulated militias of the People who keep and bear Arms and ensuring the domestic tranquility and security of any of our free States.
     
  11. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    What excuse could persons have if they could no longer claim to be in poverty due to unemployment compensation that clears our poverty guidelines? Merely simplifying our government social safety nets could allow for better employment of resources in the our markets.
     
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a local school district cannot manage/fund on-line education but there is no excuse why at a state or federal level these extra-curriculum courses cannot be available...and not just to students but anyone who wishes to learn...
     
  13. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Sound like a great plan. I agree. But the schools should be doing this with current funding, not asking for more money. IMO, USA public school teachers whould work 8 hour days 5 days a week and for 12 moths like every other state employee. Why should we pay them any more money when they are getting a full salary with union and pension benifits.

    Hell, I'll tell you how the USA can fix the public school system. Get a bunch of Mexicans to work it and they will work harder 8 hours a day and 12 months a year for less money and they will do as good or a better job than the current tenured clowns we have in public school welfare system.

    LOL.....
     
  14. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    That we have a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge, but no anti-hypocrisy laws on the books to go along with it.
     
  15. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Up to eighth grade general knowledge, civics and hitsory the backbone of what they need to be citizens. Then prepare them for employment with actual learning some career by the time they leave High School either directly out of school employment entry-level ready, go on to an apprenticeship or two year school and for some to college for a college education the talented tenth model. And for the latter two make the education very affordable with low cost state options that even the poorest could afford to attend.

    What good is education if at the end they are not able to work and be a productive person I don't care if that is a lower skilled career or highly educated one?
     
  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the collective 'we' can ever agree on the definition and goals of a public education system. As we try to gear it towards college preparation, or career preparation, or basic education achievement, all this does is divide the nation into more reasons not to fund education.

    Anyone who has access, and who uses Goggle for example, and all the options of the Internet, must admit the power of knowledge is pretty (*)(*)(*)(*)ed nice! If there is more knowledge available on the Internet than we will ever learn in 12 years of public education, seems it is time to ask where is the best place to obtain our knowledge? Should all of our K-12 knowledge come from one source? Should it be 50% Internet and 50% classroom? Should education include sports? Should education include the arts? Should education include the trades?

    The US government cannot tell us 'why' we have public education which is one reason why we don't see much improvement; if we don't know where we wish to go it is unlikely we can get there! Since we don't have a clear and concise mission statement for public education, how is it possible to design a public education system? If the goal might be to prepare kids for careers, then K-12 obviously does not work meaning it requires a minimum of K-16.

    Lastly, IMHO, public education has become exactly like General Motors; both are ineffective dinosaurs struggling to survive in a changing world. Both due to numbers of employees, unions, facilities, etc. have become too big to allow to fail. But instead of forcing wholesale changes, we just kick the same old can down the road.

    Public education fails nearly 50% of our kids; is this viable? If higher intelligence and problem solving capabilities is a great thing...why is society so reluctant to make it available? Why not have a public education system, fully functional from K-16/18, including the trades and arts, funded by taxpayer dollars, available to all Americans at any time of their life...
     
  17. septimine

    septimine New Member

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    Well, I'm personally a very basics person. If a person graduates doing math up to advanced algebra or Trigonometry, reading at a 12 grade level, and knows the powers and functions of the federal branches of government and the amendments to the constitution, I think that's very basic but probably good enough for someone in entry level no skill work. Of course it should also be good enough of a foundation to get into a college if you did well enough in high school.
     
  18. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Why do you suppose it requires 12 years of public education to educate to the 'very basic' levels?
     
  19. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Part of it is a developing learning ability on the part of the students.

    I think we would all be better off, if the Federalist Papers and federal and State Constitutions were required reading to graduate from high school and become part of the electorate of the United States.
     
  20. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    One thing about the Civil war that should be taught in schools is that it was completely avoidable. While many pro slavery apologists insist (even to this day) that slavery was biblically sanctioned, the Truth is that slavery as it was practice was anti-biblical:

    http://utc.iath.virginia.edu/abolitn/abesaegat.html


    Angelina Grimké's Appeal to Christian Women of the South proved this. Millions of innocent people died in the antebellum and post war period needlessly. This is what should be taught in schools, churches, synagogues, and everywhere else.
     
  21. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What should children be taught?

    More than just the Qur'an.
     
  22. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    I agree that slavery should have been abolished via eminent domain.

    Why does it still seem like the right prefers the coercive use of force of the State, to merely using lucre in a more fiscally and socially responsible manner?
     
  23. septimine

    septimine New Member

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    Well, maybe basic is the wrong word, but the idea is that everyone would be taught to do the very basic stuff, no frills or whistles. Math, English, Science, Civics. That's the basics, not fancy, but hopefully enough of a background that you could take that education (reading on a 12 grade level, math to a 12 grade level (trig IMO), science to the same level) and have the skills needed to learn any other skills needed. If I can read, do math to trig, and know physics, I have the background necessary to go on to learn job-skills for anything from computer programming to car sales to farming to over the road truck driving. Not giving kids those kinds of skills upon graduation means that they're stuck with whatever their school taught them to do. If you only read at a 3rd grade level and are trained to make auto parts, you're locked into that forever -- you don't have the background to take your education and learn data entry, or cooking, or construction. If I take the training later, then I can take my skills learned in school and pick something useful to the market, which is generally good when the jobs available change so fast. If you have a job in mind in 8th grade, odds are that the specific job will no longer exist in the same form by the time that you graduate from the required training. It's a target that moves too fast to aim an entire class full of kids at.
     
  24. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I was recently in a situation of paying for some work labor, the wage was $12/hour and the person worked 9 hours. This person was a high school graduate just 2 weeks earlier. I asked him what is 9x12 and he did not know the answer, he could not figure it out, and used the calculator on his cell phone to get the answer.

    For me, this is so telling about the public education system. He didn't memorize the multiplication tables, or was he instructed how to get the answer by multiplying 9x10 plus 9x2. And since he graduated only 2 weeks earlier, obviously he was not tested for this simple question.

    So...what does this tell us about public education?
     
  25. hiimjered

    hiimjered Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was thinking about this. At first I had the same thought: how could a graduate not be able to do that simple math? But the more I think about it, the more I wonder if it really matters.

    Years ago every child learned Latin. It helped to build their ability to understand new words, enhanced their vocabulary and culture. Now it seems unnecessary. People write so little these days that schools are dropping cursive writing from the curriculum and I doubt most people will even notice. Instead, children are learning how to use spreadsheets and powerpoint and other such computer skills.

    Perhaps, this is just a natural progression where skills gradually disappear as other ones replace them.
     

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