What to do with Bobby Lee and Stonewall...?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by LangleyMan, Jul 11, 2021.

  1. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Hey, how about some statues of Guderian or Rommel in France?

    And how about one of Bin Laden for the Freedom Plaza in NYC?

    These guys KILLED thousands of Americans too. Don't they deserve some glory
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
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  2. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    .

    Evil antichrist marxists destroyed historic statues and other monuments of Tsarist Russia... then they destroyed churches... then they mass-murdered millions of Christians.

    Many who do not voice opposition to the beginning of a cultural marxist revolution will become its victim in the end.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
  3. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    We have a winner! Statues, sculptures, and paintings are art. If they involve famous historical figures, you can be sure they serve the secondary purpose of being historical propaganda, a visual 'ode' to an event or person, if you will, before the advent of photography or cinematography distilled specific images as propaganda.

    Local communities get to choose the art that gets displayed on public owned property, through their local and state representatives and whatever process that gets created. And local communities get to change their minds. The predominant views of 50 years ago about a given piece of art are not some binding contract in perpetuity. Frankly its none of my business what art gets displayed in Mobile Alabama. It should reflect the values, opinions and tastes of the people who pay the taxes, the people who see it, and the people who's property values or tourist dollar income are impacted by it.

    Insofar as the propaganda of yesteryear, periodically gets rewritten, and cultural change adapts a different view, its a safe bet, its not always going to age well.

    As for vandalism, every city and state has a statute on the books. The only people who get to destroy or deface property are the owners of same or those who have their permission. I like to see those statutes enforced.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
  4. Tipper101

    Tipper101 Well-Known Member

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    how bout some logic? You got any of that?

    nope, just emotionalism. Goodness and you didn’t even live back then. Can’t imagine how much worse you are at emotional discipline with topics that actually affect you
     
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  5. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    Patently false.
     
  6. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Answer the ****** question, will you? Why don't we put up statues to the German "heroes" of the last war, and why not one to the general who hit us hardest and best in our conflict with Islam? Sure they were the enemy, but they were great and glorious military men too, where are their statues?
     
  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Totally true. Typical Trumper, their entire thought process is simply to deny reality, even when that reality is obvious and well known. No actual intellectual underpinning is expressed because they know from the beginning that they don't have any. What we get in the end is just insane maunderings and gaslighting, imitations of their hero.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
  8. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    Facts eh? You deal more in propaganda than fact.

    If you and I enter into an agreement and we both willfully sign a contract that defines our rights and responsibilities under said agreement.

    Years later I come back and say, “You know I never liked this part of our agreement because I consider it to be immoral. As such I’m no longer going to uphold that portion of our contract whether you like it or not.” You respond and say, “That’s fine. If you want to unilaterally alter our agreement without my consent then I want out of our partnership.”

    Who is the traitor? You or I?

    If I then come back and say, “No you’re not leaving our partnership and if I have to murder your men, women and children to stop you then that’s what I’m going to do.”

    Who is in right and who is in the wrong? Furthermore if placed in that position would you not fight back?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
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  9. Tipper101

    Tipper101 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not fully convinced you know anything about either war. You appear not to know who fought in them.

    Germans Vs USA
    Americans Vs Americans

    you are so clueless you think there’s no difference between Rommel and Lee. Good lord please educate yourself.

    and while you do that hopefully learn to control your emotions too. It’s really not that hard.
     
  10. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    I’m fully convinced he has no idea what he’s talking about.
     
  11. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Well if this isn't a fine example of a bait thread there's no such a thing, I said I said well I do declare this here is a bait thread boy.
     
  12. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    They fought against the United States. They were a declared enemy of the United States. They were no different than the German and Japanese generals who fought against us in WWII. Or Osama bin Laden for that matter. They fought for the right to hold slaves. There is nothing honorable about them.
     
  13. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    Actually it was judgements of the time that led to the Civil War. Large numbers of US citizens in the North came to see slavery as a despicable institution that had to go. To this day, those of the Northern persuasion tend to see the South, before and after the Civil War, as having a rather savage society and culture. One to be decried not celebrated.
     
  14. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    It is why I speak out in opposition to the Republican Party.
     
  15. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    It is called sarcasm. It is common when dealing with a not too well thought out argument. It is more advantageous to show the absurdity of a bad argument than to just call it dumb.
     
  16. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    The war ended 154 years ago. Give it a rest already. It’s amazing how people get salty over history.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
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  17. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    My ancestors came from the North. One of my great, great, great grandpas fought in the war. He rose to the rank of Captain in the Union Army. For his services he was given 500 acres of prime Ohio farm land - from which he began the inter generational wealth that allowed me to attend a fine Catholic school, rather than a public one. To my grandpa and the men who fought and died along side him, there was no difference between Rommel and Lee.
     
  18. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    Lets just stop honoring anybody with anything, that way we can save the tender sensibilities of the always on the prowl "aggrieved"....to hell with History, it only promotes dissension.
     
  19. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

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    That's actually exactly what Germany did with their statues. They had them removed from public squares and moved to museums
     
  20. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Period correct artillery.
     
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  21. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again:
    Lets look at it a bit differently. Just be honest in your answer to yourself. You don't have to answer publicly in the forum.

    What would you have done under the same circumstances? The circumstances which you grew up in. Different parents. Different times. A time when the state was more important than the United States. Different norms.

    What people tend to forget is that the norms were different at that time. You should never try to judge someone based on your norms at this time when they lived at a different time under different norms.
     
  22. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    Just remarkable how people of one certain political leaning thinks we cannot teach history without statues to everyone from history
     
  23. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    So, by this standard we should not really be so harsh in our judgement of Nazi Germany and it soldiers.
     
  24. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Before or after War 2?
     
  25. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was within my lifetime. I remember seeing those horrible pictures of dead and starving Jews.

    Most of the soldiers were just common people. The claim was that most was not aware of the holocaust.. I was a friend of a US Air Force officer who was the son of Germans who lived through that period. I met his parents and they seemed like very nice people.

    Like most situations, there is no single right answer.

    However, that has nothing to do with it. The question is whether your beliefs would be the same as today as they would have been over a hundred and fifty years ago when communications were entirely different. You would have been surrounded by people with similar beliefs. At a time when loyalty to the state was considered more important than loyalty to the United States.
     

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