What Trump supporters would like the rest of us to believe.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by robini123, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Team Trump would like us all to believe that if a democrat were president asking a foreign leader to investigate a prominent republican which the democrat president may be running against in the next election, that Trump supporters and republicans in general would be fine with that.

    In this alternative version of reality Trump supporters would like us to believe that they would trust the democrat president so much that they would conclude that the intent was solely to investigate potential criminal activity of a political adversary and that politics played no part in any consideration as to whether said investigation should begin. That the investigation would be started based upon solid evidence and that partisan politics would not be a motivation at all.

    That is the stuff team Trump would like us to believe. Republicans trusting a democrat president to be fair and objective when investigating a political rival. Ya, when pigs fly.
     
  2. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    After Hussein Obama ran a spy campaign and orchestrated a rigged election against Trump, I think you have a point. Oh wait, that's what Trump wants investigated....which is happening right now.
     
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  3. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Obama never ran against Dirty Donald?????
     
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  4. Socratica

    Socratica Well-Known Member

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    There are incorrect assumptions in your statement. Democrats are going to believe whatever they want to believe, and the same is true for Republicans. No one will convince you of anything if you've already reached a pre-conceived notion.
     
  5. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    20 years of political debate has taught me that politics is tribal thus predictable. Is your argument that if a Democrat president investigated a Republican rival that rank and file Republicans would be fine with that?
     
  6. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Were you OK with what Obama did in his “spy campaign”?
     
  7. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Not that I am aware of.
     
  8. Socratica

    Socratica Well-Known Member

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    I don't know the answer to that. I know that Democrats have already reached their conclusions and are looking for facts to support it because to them it looks bad. I also know that Republicans will most likely deny or block any opposition because (let's be honest) we've been here before with the muller investigation and Democrats have been at this since Trump's first day.

    In a sane political environment, none of this would be happening.
     
  9. nobodyspecific

    nobodyspecific Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To tolerate our leaders opening investigations into their opposing candidate during an election is to invite corruption with open arms.
     
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  10. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    Investigating political rivals is called opposition research, and has been done for quite a long time now. Obama did that with Trump by spying on him.

    Obama opened that door, and now it's going to stay open. The only difference is that I doubt we'll need a fake dossier to get the dirt on Biden.
     
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  11. nobodyspecific

    nobodyspecific Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps *criminal investigation would be a bit more clear as to my personal concern about tolerating this kind of thing, and where that road leads if followed to its logical conclusions.
     
  12. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Ironic that Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate corruption but Biden wanted Ukraine to stop an investigation on corruption.
     
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  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What if there is probable cause the opposing candidate committed a crime? Did you hold the same view with the opening of a counter intelligence investigation against candidate Trump?
     
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  14. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    kool avatar, as for your thoughts...

    not so much

    dems only see things that support negativity towards trump & the gop...

    ie: there's going to weather today, be prepared.

    OMG! trump just colluded with the russians again, but the trumpettes will defend him and say "it's true, there will be weather today" they are so blind and racist... blah blah blah
     
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  15. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yet that is exactly what happened in 2015.
     
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  16. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Multiple testimonies by successful, highly regarded, professionals have shown Trump cared little about corruption in Ukraine. He cared about the Biden's and any dirt the Ukrainian president might uncover.
     
  17. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And Biden pressed for the prosecutor's removal not because he was some sort of anti-corruption prosecutor, but because he was corrupt himself.
     
  18. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    He has and still is. Obama thought he could remain president via Hillary and actively endeavored to make that happen. Shiff's little dog and pony show is most likely his own and giving Obama fits but the Russian collusion thing has Obama's fingerprints all over it. Obama began shadowing Trump the moment he announced his candidacy.
     
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  19. nobodyspecific

    nobodyspecific Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If there is probable cause, it should be handled by the police / FBI / CIA / whatever investigation agency you like independent of the incumbent's involvement. Create a special task force or department specifically designed for rooting out corruption and crimes committed in this and any previous administrations for all I care. But the minute the incumbent themselves starts advocating an investigation of their rival candidate, it calls into question the legitimacy of the investigation and any evidence produced by it. The incumbent must in effect be recused from anything to do with such an investigation to preserve any perception of legitimacy.

    I don't know the specifics of the investigation into candidate Trump, so I am undecided on that. As far as I am aware, that was initiated by a suspicion of Russian attempts to influence the election. If there is any truth the an allegation that Obama directed or pushed for a criminal investigation into candidate Trump, I would have wanted him to have been immediately thrown out of office.
     
  20. nobodyspecific

    nobodyspecific Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If there is any truth to an allegation that Obama directed or pushed for a criminal investigation into candidate Trump, he should have been thrown out of office immediately. One bad act does not excuse the next.

    If you have hard evidence that Obama directly pushed for such an investigation (such as a call transcript), then please present it so that I can be better informed on this subject.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  21. Cal-Pak

    Cal-Pak Active Member

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    Was this before or after the EU pressured Ukraine to remove that prosecutor?
     
  22. Cal-Pak

    Cal-Pak Active Member

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    What I would like to know is, what Trump supporters would do if, let's say, every Democratic Presidential nominee came out in every speech and said something like.


    "Hey, Germany.

    We know how much you hate corruption.
    So, in the name of fighting corruption, maybe you should launch a criminal investigation into Deutsche Bank and Russian money laundering.

    And, Trumps financial connection to Deutsche Bank to see if he was involved with any Russian money laundering.

    Then every week for the next, oh, 18 months. Come out and state publicly how the investigation is going."


    According to Trump supporters, there is nothing wrong with that.
     
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  23. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    It is illogical by my measure of logic to judge the current investigation by the Muller investigation as they are two separate investigations. I do however agree that the Democrats have already reached their conclusion just have the Republicans have. In a sane political environment Democrats would not have been out to get Trump from day one and Republicans would not be claiming that there is nothing wrong with a president investigating a political rival that they may face in the next election.
     
  24. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Yet Trump does not claim to be doing opposition research, he claims to be investigating corruption which he should not be doing in the case of the Biden’s as he has a vested interest in the outcome of said investigation. He should have recused himself as that would have been the ethical thing to do.

    As for Obama, were you OK with his spying on Trump?
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  25. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I find it ironic that Trump supporters only care about corruption on the left and turn a blind eye to it on the right. As an independent with no political loyalty I take issue with corruption on both sides.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019

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