What's Up! Did Russian Sub Have Fire Fight With US Sub?

Did I say anything about malevolent intent?

 

I quoted what I read in reputable sources like the Vineyard of the Saker before the shoot down, and what I read afterwards by distinguished investigative reporters like Robert Parry who helped uncover the Iran Contra affair.

What you gave are nothing but your own words. No proof, no references!

It is because I said it. Finito!


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I believe this is common for all post-communist countries.

Post economy collapse and moving toward open markets, you ll have the former apparatus people taking over and getting uber rich aka the oligarch and then gradual stabilization.

In the US case its a different beast.

 

Vladimir Putin was not a politician, and he knew we had experts here.

 

No it's not a communist thing, if you look at all the new democracies created... you'll notice that they are almost all riddled with corruption... Transparency.org have details on their site if you want I can find it for you. Enormous amounts of public funds have been stolen all over the world due to the "Democracy" push over the last 30 years.

The US is being preyed on by the international bankers and corporations... same as everyone else.

 

I have little idea of what you’re trying to say but if. you’re suggesting I’d back the Russians in anything you’re very mistaken.
The only things out of Russia I treasure are Icons and some of their Classical music. You can keep the rest along with their putrid form of state capitalism and borscht.

 

1. My first claim that the rebels shot down ukr jets, with BUK missiles

• Ukrainian Air Force – 19 June 2014: A spokesman for the militia in Donetsk stated that they downed a Ukrainian Air Force Sukhoi Su-25 during the battle in Yampil.[13]
• Ukrainian Air Force – 24 June 2014: The Ukrainian military says one of its helicopters, a Mil Mi-8, had been shot down by pro-Russian rebels in the east near Sloviansk, killing all nine people on board,[14]
• Ukrainian Air Force – 2 July 2014, one Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-25, tail number 06 blue, crashed due to a technical fault while landing at Dnipropetrovsk International Airport. The pilot ejected safely.[15][16][17]
• Ukrainian Air Force – 14 July 2014: A Ukrainian Antonov An-26 transport aircraft was shot down by a surface-to-air missile over eastern Ukraine while flying at 6,500 metres (21,300 ft). [18][19][20] Two crewmembers were captured by pro-Russian militiamen, four were rescued by Ukrainian forces and the other two were unaccounted for.[21] The missing aviators were found dead on 17 July.[22]
• Ukrainian Air Force – 16 July 2014: A Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-25, tail number 03 blue, was shot down over eastern Ukraine near Amvrosiivka town, and the pilot ejected successfully.
• (2) Ukrainian Air Force – 23 July 2014: Two Sukhoi Su-25 strike fighters were shot down in the rebel-held area of Savur-Mohyla.
• Ukrainian Air Force – 7 August 2014: Pro-Russian forces shot down a Ukrainian Air Force Mikoyan MiG-29 with a "Buk" surface-to-air missile near the town of Yenakievo. The pilot managed to eject.[29] and separatist sources later claimed he was captured and interrogated.[30]
• Ukrainian Air Force – 17 August 2014: A Mikoyan MiG-29 was shot down by rebels in the Luhansk region of eastern Ukraine returning after completing a successful mission. The pilot managed to eject and was found by a search and rescue operation.[31]
• Ukrainian Air Force – 20 August 2014: A Sukhoi Su-24M was shot down by rebel forces in the Luhansk region of eastern Ukraine. The two crewmembers ejected successfully.[32]
• Ukrainian Army Aviation – 20 August 2014: A Mil Mi-24 helicopter was shot down in near the town of Horlivka according to the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence. Both pilots died in the attack.[33]
• Ukrainian Air Force – 29 August 2014: A Sukhoi Su-25, tail number 08 blue, was shot down near Starobeshevo by a surface-to-air missile during the battle of Ilovaisk. The pilot, Captain Vladyslav Voloshyn, ejected and after 4 days was able to reach Ukrainian-controlled territory, was secured by a unit of the Ukrainian National Guard.[34][35][36]

Man these 'rebels', they are so good. They dont wear bandanas and carry AK47's, but they can also take down freaking fighter jets.

2. Second claim about Almatey saying the codes were registered to the ukr army:

Almaz-Antey said it had analyzed shrapnel damage and identified the missile as "9M38M1 of the Buk M1 system", registered to the Ukr army

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32972406
https://www.apnews.com/f53b42ce3aab44308730eb2d89c9e545
https://www.voanews.com/europe/russia-missile-shot-down-flight-mh17-was-ukrainian

Too lazy to find the official statement video when Almaty-Antey representative released their 'findings' months after Russian lying and induced confusions.

I wonder how can you, which you know so much about MH17, didnt know these ones? I wonder why...

 

I only care about one detail. Was Bigfoot involved?

 

He still isn't a politician.

 

Bigfoot handles top secret espionage.

 

I'm not saying its a communist thing, I was saying that is representative to all post-communist countries.
In the first years after the transition, you see a huge discrepancy in income equality and then it will stabilize. Putin or not. So you can't really pin the motive on him.

I agree.

 

‘Politician’ and ‘Intelligence operative’ on the surface appear to be seperate careers but let me assure both are well practiced in playing cynical machiavellian games. You may also wish to consider Putin as a mere figurehead with those making the important decisions hidden from sight. That however was before Putin learnt cuddling up to westerners with the same morality as his (read nil) gave him significant leverage and protection when dealing with those in the Kremlin he’s surrounded by. Add to that Putin is probably (impossible to get accurate figures) one of the most wealthy oligarchs in all of Russia and you might just be able to see how much he has in common with a certain US leader. There are many more layers to this from the struggle both parties have aquiring total cooperation of their military to secure person to person communications but I’ve wandered way off topic.

 

Been there. Several times. As well as in Ukraine. It is not as it is portrayed in the MSM, period. Most Russians are pro-Trump, even with the sanctions. Also most Russians, while some may be tired of Putin, no doubt understand what he's done for their country. Putin is given a lot of credit for the implementation of capitalism and bringing back religious holidays. He's not able to run for re-election this next time around so I have no idea what the MSM will do....their boogeyman won't be available.

Speaking of MH17....the Malaysians aren't buying that Russia had anything to do with the shoot down, so there's that.

And yes, there is an active war going on with a defined border between Ukraine and the Donbass region. If you want to visit Donetsk, you can't even cross from the Ukraine side....your best bet is to fly into Rostov, Russia and cross by car or bus. But the MSM likes spreading bullshit propaganda and won't actually send (if they had one on staff) a real journalist to report ground conditions. And nope, the Russian military is not there.

 

YES! Then the cow jumped over the moon; the little dog laughed to see such sport, and the dish ran away with the spoon.

 

No, but I'm not convinced one or two aren't the equivalent of Chinese '50 centers'.

 

You have repeatedly been caught treating baseless rumours as fact and every time they turn out not to be true you skip on as if you were right and spread the next baseless rumour. Sometimes you simply keep repeating the lie for years without a shred of evidence. This thread will be no different.

 

Sorry, I was using the collective 'you' rather than the specific - I was referencing a quote from a former Australian PM on a different subject. In any case, even if the 'you' was specific it would simply mean you were paying attention. Nothing to contradict your stated position here.

 

https://www.debka.com/mivzak/urgent...-reported-us-russian-submarines-in-firefight/

First reports reaching DEBKAfile’s military sources say that a US submarine intercepted a Russian nuclear sub in American waters opposite Alaska. The Russian sub escorting the nuclear submarine responded with a Balkan 2000 torpedo and scuttled the US vessel. Urgent consultations in both the White House and the Kremlin were taking place on Tuesday night. US Vice President Mike Pence called off an appearance in New Hampshire after being recalled to Washington for a conference called by President Donald Trump without explanation.


another link
http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...nto-emergency-meetings-as-war-rumors-escalate

More
https://uawire.org/israeli-media-russian-and-us-submarines-clash-in-alaska

BTW who manufactures the Balkan 2000 torpedo?

 

LOL!

More crap Russian technology failed so they are trying to weave some nutty conspiracy theory.

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/07/04/russian-reactor-safe/

Note to readers: Mark every single source of this crackpot conspiracy theory as just that, crackpot.

 

@HereWeGoAgain

https://www.google.com/search?q="ba...JzQIHWkhCCsQ_AUICygA&biw=1067&bih=459&dpr=1.5

Find one you like.

Seems like both sides are downplaying, some say.


REMEMBER: The Gulf of Tonkin that never happened?

 

Sage advice but don’t be fooled into thinking ALL Russian technology is junk.

 

No, but they are famous for cutting corners. Consider Chernobyl, for example. Our scientists rejected that design in the 50s.

When the design inevitably failed, they threw bodies at it.

 

Yes but some claim NASA’s Apollo mission did the same.

 

References?

All I have seen is the PM questioning the charges against the Russians. Not exactly a shock given his form (I'm guessing you don't follow Malaysian politics) and the fact that the previous government was convinced Russia was behind it.

I'd want a bit more than Mahatir being a pain in the ass to go on, especially in the face of an impressive investigation. Russia lied about this from the start & flooded the internet with conspiracy theories to muddy the water. The usual suspects drank the kool aid & handed it out enthusiastically, even when the lies contradicted each other.

 

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