When do we execute Manning?

Discussion in 'Security & Defenses' started by Hate_bs, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    His crime is not treason because if his crime was treason then you would have every reporter of the New York Times and many other publications around the world up for treason as well. You do not know what you are talking about,you should get back to talking BS about marching and the like.
     
  2. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    So that's really what you're going with?
     
  3. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    Bradley Manning's treatment was cruel and inhuman, UN torture chief rules

    UN special rapporteur on torture's findings likely to reignite criticism of US government's treatment of WikiLeaks suspect



    The UN special rapporteur on torture has formally accused the US government of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment towards Bradley Manning, the US soldier who was held in solitary confinement for almost a year on suspicion of being the WikiLeaks source.

    Juan Mendez has completed a 14-month investigation into the treatment of Manning since the soldier's arrest at a US military base in May 2010. He concludes that the US military was at least culpable of cruel and inhumane treatment in keeping Manning locked up alone for 23 hours a day over an 11-month period in conditions that he also found might have constituted torture.

    "The special rapporteur concludes that imposing seriously punitive conditions of detention on someone who has not been found guilty of any crime is a violation of his right to physical and psychological integrity as well as of his presumption of innocence," Mendez writes.

    The findings of cruel and inhuman treatment are published as an addendum to the special rapporteur's report to the UN general assembly on the promotion and protection of human rights. They are likely to reignite criticism of the US government's harsh treatment of Manning ahead of his court martial later this year.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un?newsfeed=true
     
  4. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    Obviously I have explained my argument but you have problems reading it. It is not my fault that you cannot keep track of your own argument,one time you are claiming treason and then you have changed your mind. You must try harder.
     
  5. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    Solitary confinement is common in U.S. prisons across the country. The U.S. certainly doesn't consider it torture, and the fact that this U.N. official without any authority thinks it is, means nothing.
     
  6. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    You got yourself to deep. When Mushroom and I proved you wrong and showed you quite clearly where and how Manning committed treason you had to fall back to silly word games. You're clearly not mature enough to have discussions like an adult.
     
  7. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    Means nothing to you because your number 1 job is as an apologist for the US military.

    Mendez, who runs the UN office that investigates incidents of alleged torture around the world, told the Guardian: "I conclude that the 11 months under conditions of solitary confinement (regardless of the name given to his regime by the prison authorities) constitutes at a minimum cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of article 16 of the convention against torture.

    Breaking International law yet again. America is a rogue state.
     
  8. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    You have not proven anyone wrong. You claimed treason and you then had to change your mind to spying when your fellow us military apologist rolled up. My argument is that he has not committed any offence like those as if he had then all the world's press would have as well. Problem is that you cannot see a good guy when you are weighed down by us military BS. Manning did a great deed and will go down in history as a man who acted for the good. You and your buddies will be written up in history as a bunch of would be Nazis.
     
  9. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    The U.S. never ratified OPCAT (Opertional Protocol to the Convention of Torture). The U.S. is under no obligation to let this UN observer inspect or interview Private Manning.

    There are no specific laws banning solitary confinement. Juan Mendez has simply decided that solitary confinement is cruel. There has been no trial or serious investigation, just one man's interpretation of a law. I think the U.S. Attorney General will disagree :p
     
  10. DA60

    DA60 Banned

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    Great - so cowards can hide behind the law.

    Wonderful (sarcasm)!!!

    Either a system can handle being seen by all or it should die.

    America is about freedom...not cowardly politicians and their little minions treating people as they see fit behind closed doors.

    America is going down the toilet, both financially and morally.


    I do not think Manning is a hero.

    But the more I see of what's under the rock of America...the more I applaud what he did...whatever his motives.


    If the only way America can survive is to deny people their basic human rights whenever they feel like it...then let it die.


    'It's better to be dead and cool, then alive and uncool.'
     
  11. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    No serious investigation? I would actually call 14 months a very serious investigation,you should really have read the article before apologising for the US military yet again.

    United Nations Convention Against Torture
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_Against_Torture

    Signed and ratified by the USA government
     
  12. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    Solitary confinement (only 23 hours a day) isn't even close to torture in my mind. People trying to demonize America will use the word "torture" to try and close the gap between solitary confinement and actual torture. The UN observer's entire issue with Manning's confinement is it's solitary nature. The U.S. doesn't view this as a violation of the UN law, the observer does (he's a observer not a court). The final part about not being able to speak with Manning privately is a non-issue because the U.S. did not ratify that part of the UN torture agreements.
     
  13. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    Why would you send me a wikipedia link?

    Do a little more research then get back to me. Reread my post where I told you what to look at then look at it.
     
  14. DA60

    DA60 Banned

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    Ummm...where in my entire post did I even use the word 'torture'?

    And I do not even BEGIN to care what is 'legal' or not.

    I care about what is right and honorable.

    And it sounds to me like there is nothing 'right or honorable' about the way he is being treated.

    Sounds like the U.S. government has turned into a bunch of cowards and bullies. Keep suspects locked up for as long as it takes to get them to admit to what you want them to admit to.

    TSA, the Patriot Act, Gitmo, rendition, assassinations of U.S. citizens without trial, parts of the NDAA...it all makes me sick and it is strictly the work of cowards.

    When does the government break out the swastika's?


    And please save your excuses...they mean NOTHING to me.

    NO excuse justifies the above crap.

    If you think America since 9/11 has acted honorably...then you do not know what honor means.


    And please save the 'you have to act like the enemy to defeat the enemy' nonsense.

    The ends NEVER justify the means.

    Besides - the enemy is not the terrorists.

    The enemy is fear.

    Conquer it - you beat the terrorists.

    Give in to it - the terrorists win.


    Honor above ALL else.
     
  15. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    My reference to torture wasn't towards you.

    Also, stay on topic. You just brought 10 years of U.S. foriegn and domestic policy into a thread about a single individual. Threads have a habit of falling apart when posters throw out such broad and all encompassing statements/posts. Lets stick to Manning.

    I don't think there's anything honorable about leaking hundreds of thousands of documents of information that are vital to U.S. interests. I also don't think its dis-honorable to put a prisoner in 23 hours of solitary confinement. He knew what he was doing was wrong as well as the consequences.
     
  16. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    I sent you the link so that you can see that the USA government has signed up for the convention against torture and are therefore liable to its rules and regulations obviously. It seems to have passed you by as usual.
     
  17. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    So why did you quote his whole post that did not even mention torture to bang on about torture then? Bit confused?
     
  18. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    This would be so much more satisfying if you had even an ounce of humility and would admit you were wrong :p. Of course you'll come up with some silly excuse.

    Your own little wiki article actually has a link to the pertinent information so there's no reason you should have missed it. Here you go. It's in relation to a prisoner's right to meet privately with an outside observor. (I'm putting this in here so you can't claim I was referring to something else as you tend to do)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Option..._Inhuman_or_Degrading_Treatment_or_Punishment

    The observor claims that the U.S. is in violation of one of the components of the UN torture definitions. He's using his own interpretation of the law, no where in the law does it say that solitary confinement is a violation.
     
  19. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    The UN are saying they consider that Manning is placed under cruel and inhuman conditions and that America has broken her international treaty obligations. The also stated "that imposing seriously punitive conditions of detention on someone who has not been found guilty of any crime is a violation of his right to physical and psychological integrity as well as of his presumption of innocence,". The observer is the UN man in charge so if he says it is so then it is so and no US military apologist on the internet is going to change that.So for you yet again..he states

    "I conclude that the 11 months under conditions of solitary confinement (regardless of the name given to his regime by the prison authorities) constitutes at a minimum cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of article 16 of the convention against torture.
     
  20. DA60

    DA60 Banned

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    1) I will say whatever I want and let the mods decide if it's okay or not, thank you.

    2) Innocent until proven guilty.

    Prove to me right now using ONLY unbiased, independently verified facts he is guilty.

    If you cannot, then he is not...yet.

    and 3) The ends NEVER justify the means.
     
  21. DA60

    DA60 Banned

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    Good question.
     
  22. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    One single man in the UN is not the judge and jury of entire nations. He "recommended" to the UN general assembly. It's for that body to decide.
     
  23. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    In America he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. This doesn't mean that he cannot be detained though. Solitary confinement is a standard component of U.S. military prisons. He's receiving no "worse" treatment than anyone else.
     
  24. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    I think you will find that they back all the findings by their relevant heads of departments. If you can name one incident when they did not then bring it on please.
     
  25. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    People use the word "torture" liberally. Many use the word as a weapon, making no distinction between the Taliban pouring acid over victims and the U.S. using solitary confinement (23 hours). Anyone trying to be intellectually honest needs to acknowledge the difference, particularly when there's no legal criteria anywhere identifying solitary confinement as "torture".
     

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