When does AOCs seat go back up for election?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Aquarius, Nov 26, 2020.

  1. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  2. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  3. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The same could be said for capitalism; why is the poverty rate so high in America, one of the richest countries in the world? The upper class force the lower class to stay in poverty for their own personal gain.
     
  4. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Part of that is correct. The upper class in ANY scenario can retain control. The difference is, in capitalism, the lower class has the option to create their own path to the upper class. You don't in socialism. Taxation takes that away from you.
     
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  5. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    10.4% of Americans are living in poverty; yes, it is true that the lower class has to option to create their path to the upper class however how realistic is it to assume over 33 million lower class people can achieve this goal?
     
  6. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the problem is that we don't have enough teaching efforts to help motivate the youth. In so many inner cities we have failure rates through the roof and crime that extends beyond before they were even born. It's not a capitalism failure, it's community failure.
     
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  7. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Get a damn clue. Big Money leans right.

    Do you actually believe a significant number of billionaire Republicans switched sides in six years?
     
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  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the failure of higher-income folks to share. Ever thus in this country. Are you one of the types against sharing?
     
  9. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I don't suppose that it bothers you people who understand how the system works know you're spouting rightwing propaganda.

    upload_2020-12-5_14-7-19.png

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2020/10/20/even-americas-billionaires-are-tilting-toward-biden-in-the-2020-presidential-race/?sh=760110332bb7

    "Our new, systematic study of the 100 wealthiest Americans indicates that Buffett, Gates, Bloomberg et al are not at all typical. Most of the wealthiest US billionaires – who are much less visible and less reported on – more closely resemble Charles Koch. They are extremely conservative on economic issues. Obsessed with cutting taxes, especially estate taxes – which apply only to the wealthiest Americans. Opposed to government regulation of the environment or big banks. Unenthusiastic about government programs to help with jobs, incomes, healthcare, or retirement pensions – programs supported by large majorities of Americans. Tempted to cut deficits and shrink government by cutting or privatizing guaranteed social security benefits."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/30/billionaire-stealth-politics-america-100-richest-what-they-want
     
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  10. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    She's pushing income redistribution, not socialism.
    I know I'm correct. That's what a university education in business and economics gets you.
    She's like Rush Limbaugh--they can't go ten minutes without saying something stupid.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  11. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who has the biggest money in the nation?
     
  12. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    I do not support Medicare for all, because it would make the NHS a play ball of politics, like in the UK.
    I would like to see a Bismarck System.
     
  13. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    She is a left Social Democrat but not a socialist, same for old Sanders.
     
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  14. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    You mean Obamacare?
     
  15. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Social Democrats in the US are identified with Socialists by right wingers, who see anything to the left of Genghis Khan as bleeding-heart liberalism. I think most liberals find it easier to just say "socialist" than to try and give a course in elementary economics to people loudly going RRREEEEEEEEEEE the whole time
     
  16. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    No.
    In the late 1800, than Reichs Kanzler Bismarck of Germany, evented a very unique health insurance and care system.
    Which is called the Bismarck system.
    The most important part of it.
    The amounts paid into the system, stay in the system, government does not control that money. It has oversight.
    None profits and privates share the market, insurances.
    NHS, which is Medicare for all, the money people pay, tax, goes into the big bucket of government revenues and than the government decides what the budget of the NHS is.
    In the Bismarck system The IRS collects the health tax, its a service of the government, but than distributes every penny, to the different none profit health insurances, trade, union or what ever, the providers.
    The government can set the tax percentage, but that's about it.

    I am in the AOK, the German IRS gets every month amount x from my paycheck, according to my tax number, they know I am insured at the AOK and they will than transfer my amount to my health insurance, its a Union insurance, none profit.
    If I reach a certain level of income, or are self employed, I have to use private insurance, which is regulated, which keeps them competitive, or rates reasonable low.
    The government has its own insurance, Medicare, but it is dislodged from the government, budget wise. Every penny which gets paid in by passes the big bucket, goes straight to that Insurance.

    Government oversight, government contoll of the rates, but no controll of the money.
    It is the madatory mandate, which makes it work, everybody pays in.
    Because of that the needy have insurance, too.
     
  17. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Because she accepts MMT, and is a follower of prof. Stephanie Kelton* who was one of Bernie's economic advisors during the 2016 primaries. *author of the recently released book "The Deficit Myth".

    Regardless of what socialism is or isn't, AOC is an MMTer.

    The reason why MMT isn't accepted by orthodox neoliberal economists (free market, small government etc) is because money IS power; and orthodox toads are just ensuring money creation remains in the hands of private sector vested interests (via money creation in private sector banks) and kept out of the hands of the public sector whose national governments do have the capacity to issue the nation's currency but are banned from creating (and spending) money via the national treasury and reserve bank.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    How do the needy have insurance?
     
  19. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Is MMT Socialist?
     
  20. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    But that is a problem we have in the US. Black and white.
    In Europe, in the 1800s the inequality produced social movements. The early industrial age and its brutal working conditions strengthened that movement.
    Especially in Germany.
    Germany was having a hard time to keep up with the industrialization, not united.
    So some of those states made free school education mandatory. People had to be able to read, wright and do simple math, in this brave new world.
    1870 Germany got united and had this huge movement for more social justice.
    Bismarck was a imperial conservative, but no idiot. Education and a healthy working class meant economic power, military power and fending of the unrest.
    We are talking about taking the wind out of the opposition.
    He put one on top of it, retirement.
    What he created, with all those social programs, a educated and taken care of worker.
    That mentality stil exist.
    That is the Graf's secret resupy
     
  21. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    The needy are insured through the government insurance company, which is the largest, because the cheapest. If needed the government will supplement it.
    But the most important thing in my eyes, every dime goes were it belongs and is not a toy of the ever changing politics.
    When I pay my tax, I know, every dime will go to my insurance and not in the big pot.
    It is the wide choice of mandatory insurances, plus the government Medicare which is a independent entity.
    The health insurance system has to be a combination of none profits, for profits and Medi Care and cade

    In my eyes, I think it is not understandable, that the US has not been able to come up with a system like this.
    They have the oldest system to learn from and the most successful.
    NHS, Medicate for all, failure. See the UK.
     
  22. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    No. It just recognizes a role for money creation in the public sector. ..in order to implement an above poverty Job Guarantee.

    In a sense MMT might be considered as an amalgam of capitalism and socialism, but it is neither.
     
  23. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Fast forward to today; Italy is demanding Hungary and Poland stop vetoing EU efforts concerning fiscal support for covid-damaged national economies. And meanwhile Germany is fighting a court case against Brussels over legality of budget deficits that exceed current EU rules.


    The clock is ticking to a break-up of the EU....courtesy of your neoliberal government deficit mythology.

    Read Stepanie Kelton's book : The Deficit Myth.
     
  24. Vailhundt

    Vailhundt Banned

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    Tough. She will win every election in her district, forever, as long as she wants to run. They love her.
     
  25. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    No. Ain't going to happen.
    Its about the percentage of overall deficit. Compared to Italy, Germany has a 40% margin. The EU has set out the deficit rule for the pandemic.

    Poland and Hungary are a special case. The next EU budget and the EU Covid relief program are tied to the division of powers, which those 2 States failed to accomplish.
    As it looks right now, 25 states will make a deal and Poland and Hungary will be left out. No money, which hurts them the most, they need it.

    No problems there, only Hungary and Poland and their abuse of the EU charter and I think they have over done it.
     

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