'When has it ever become legal to shoot someone because they’re pulling off in your car?'

Doubtful. Ever off up stats to back up your claim? Reliable stats.

Your logic, Joe Schmo is better trained and equipped than LEOs.
Sorry, only fools buy that logic.

 

Joe Schmo also knows that he/she doesn't have the protections against shooting someone that a cop does. That's an important distinction.

 

that's just silly. and yes, you don't appear to understand the subject

 

I do. But you don't, why?
Not a single one of you claiming untrained armed citizens are better trained than LEOs offered any stats.
There is a reason for that.

 

Who is more lethal to innocent bystanders?

 

Who?

 

Data would suggest that cops kill more people by accident shooting at someone else while trying to stop a crime.

 

What data?

 

Police Reports, News Accounts.

 

Oh ya? Got some links?

 

You can always replace a car but not a life.

 

Use the Freedom of information act,
And make a public information request for research purposes.

News report archives for the rest.

You tube videos.



Sample...

 

Very true.

Because it was never about a Motor vehicle, it was always about the preservation of life.

 

According to the article, there was no danger to life and yet the Lt. fired his weapon at the perp, killing him.

 

In other words we are back to single incidents cherry picked and chosen for confirmation bias

 

Have I claimed there was no incidences? NO. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much.
I asked for stats, comparing shootings of civilians of innocents to LEO shooting of innocents.
A deranged husband taking the law into his own hands, a road rage warrior taking the law into its own hands. Many cases of civilians taking the law into their own hands. Judge, jury, and executioner.

I doubt there is such a study.

If it is so safe to have every individual be judge, jury, and executioner, why isn't that the law of the land? Why do we have LEOs? A justice system?

 

http://nation.time.com/2013/09/16/ready-fire-aim-the-science-behind-police-shooting-bystanders/

I love how people like you, with no clue about the realities of the situation, throw around crap like "only fools buy that logic."

I spent time in Law enforcement. The agency I was part of had some of the best training there is for law enforcement... and it was still barely adequate. I'd been a shooter my whole life. My grandfather, a career police officer, had instilled that in me because he was often horrified by the skill levels demonstrated by his fellow officers. When I arrived at the Academy I could already outshoot most of the instructors.

Law enforcement training is, for the most part, based in bureaucratic necessity and not in true tactical functionality. Most cops are not "gun people", and don't practice even what rudimentary skills they get in training. There are exceptions, certainly, and there are departments that do invest in quality training for their people; but these are few and far between.

And the average CCW holder - no "Joe Schmo", contrary to the rhetoric and propaganda put out by the gun banners - generally practices more often with their sidearm, and not subject to the regulations on sidearms of a department can actually buy higher quality firearms that work specifically for them. When I was in, the agency I worked for issued the Beretta 96D; a big gun with a long trigger reach that smaller statured agents simply could not get their hands around, and they had difficulty with even the basic qualifications as a result.

Yes, there are exceptions. There are civilian CCW carriers who fit the worst characterizations, just as there are LEO's who exceed the grandest expectations... but neither is in the majority. When one looks at the averages overall, you find private citizens are more motivated to practice, generally attend higher quality training classes, and on average, yes, are better equipped to handle their firearms responsibly than the average LEO.

 

At least 20 injured after gunfire erupts at New Jersey art festival
https://www.yahoo.com/news/least-20-injured-gunfire-erupts-154808207.html
Here's your logic.


I never said police don't or haven't shot innocents. I said there's no stats/data to support your claim the untrained civilians are less likely to shoot innocents.

You say on average, based on what data?

 

Less likely in stopping a criminal act, not committing one.

 

Really? You want to smear lawful gun owners through using the example of scumbags with extensive criminal histories trying to kill each other without regard to innocent bystanders. In a state with stringent gun control. Really?

Okay, how about you respond to what I actually SAID for a change. I didn't say "untrained civilians". I said the average gun owner... who more often than not is better trained than your average police officer.

Simple fact, experienced firsthand.

 

Its legal in Texas right now and has been for years, so long as its at night. And that's if they're RUNNING AWAY not if they're pointing a deadly weapon at you (car)
Hell I can shoot someone abscoding with my neighbors car at night ffs.

Chicago is a 3rd world country.

Also: Cite your data.

 

Where did the article say anything about the shooters. Except they were at an All Night Art Fair.


I asked you for some data that says the average gun owner is more trained than your average police officer.
How many gun owners are there in the USA?
How many LEOs in USA?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/nyregion/trenton-mass-shooting.html

Shooting was gang related.

I gave you the knowledge acquired through real law enforcement experience and through understandings of basic reality. I happen to believe strongly in the adage of, "You've got lies, then you've got damn lies, and then you've got statistics."

I could go through and post all kinds of stuff; but I'll limit myself to this:

https://www.policeone.com/gun-legis...d-citizens-the-best-solution-to-gun-violence/

The actual opinions of serving rank-and-file officers regarding private citizens being armed.

 

Experienced firsthand means it's anecdotal. Do you have any actual data backing up your claim?

Do law enforcement agencies not train prospective officers on how to shoot weapons during their time in the academy? Do law enforcement agencies not require officers to get tested on their shooting ability every year? Scary if they don't.

 

Here's an article on police training:

https://bearingarms.com/mike-m/2016/06/02/individual-safety-whos-responsible/

...and another on hit ratios.

https://www.policeone.com/police-pr...rticles/1764925-Where-did-all-the-bullets-go/

http://blog.uritraining.com/?p=102

You have to understand something: police training is driven by politics and bureaucratic agendas. They train officers to shoot arbitrary standards that have little to nothing to do with real world defensive situations, and officers don't even practice to meet those standards. The local gun ranges in the area where I was stationed always knew when quals were coming up, because agents would go in to the ranges with their duty rigs, in plain clothes, and sweating bullets as they struggled to practice up their skills enough to shoot just a minimum score... and you would be HORRIFIED to know what percentage of officers are on the street, carrying guns, who have shot the barest minimum score necessary to maintain their qualifications, and had to struggle for a week before the quals to enable themselves to shoot even that well!

Meanwhile, those police officers who think they're all that would show up at local pistol matches intending to mop the floor with the "untrained civilians"... and end up leaving with their tails between their legs as the cops finish in the bottom half of the field if not dead last.