When The Russian Hoax Is Exposed, Should The Democrats Be Held Accountable?

While none of us know for sure, there is nothing that logically indicates that Russia would favor Trump being in power. While I realize that is a common narrative amongst the left, it REALLY doesn't make any sense. The American left has ALWAYS been FAR more favorable towards Russia, while the right has always taken a more hardline approach. That much cannot be denied. On top of that, as Secretary of State Hillary was cozy with Russia with the Uranium deal. Donald Trump on the other hand, has vowed to significantly increase defense spending while reasserting American dominance, which is the POLAR OPPOSITE of what Russia would want. The speculation that Russia wanted Trump requires that we COMPLETELY ignore the above realities.

If we are going to say that Russia has tried messing with numerous democratic elections worldwide ( which is basically accepted as fact), it is FAR more likely that they are simply trying to create chaos with the goal of trying to undermine confidence in the democratic process worldwide. If they were trying to undermine Hillary specifically as opposed to just being able to get into the Dem server and not the Repub, it would be logical to conclude that like everyone else, they thought that Hillary would win, and were trying to undermine the legitimacy of whom they assumed would win.

The notion that they went to such great lengths to attempt to get such a long shot elected for some grand payoff at the end, is far fetched to say the very least. The left keeps telling themselves that Russia wanted Trump, and they are never challenged on that notion, regardless of the fact that it really doesn't make that much sense. The far more logical assumption would be that they were merely trying to create chaos.

Occams Razor.

 

I have seen great progress in entrepreneurship. The seasonal rental cabins we own have returned to 2008 rentals and better. It is such a great feeling to have confidence once again! The illegal labor with which I have been forced to compete with for so long is waning. A level playing field for contractors is on the rise. We actually can now bid to where we make a profit beyond wages. I am no longer resentful of illegals that undercut me....they are finally on the run. I believe the "JV" team is as well!
I think it would be wise that in the future Democrats don't play games with their primary candidates. What they did to poor Bernie was a big cause for embarrassment. Also, private servers are not a real good idea. Bleach bit will not always hide your lack of integrity. These things make it very easy for Russians to exploit. Spying on citizens and unmasking select conversations is not enough to deflect blame either.

 

I will give Trump cudos on illegals, but problem is that he hasn't actually done anything permanent yet. I am still waiting for him to build that wall and get those illegals out. If he doesn't they will be a bit more cautious now and be right back to normal in a few years. Here are the problems Trump hasn't done much about:
Wage stagnation and most growth going to the top 1%
Unemployment
Economic Growth
High Taxes on the middle class and small businesses
Over-regulation of business
The ogopolization of large businesses
Healthcare too expensive
College is too expensive
American schools underperforming
Russia
China
ISIS
All the illegals
Getting our country on renewable energy and off oil
Global Warming

 

We hold people accountable for hoaxes now?

Cool! Let's start with the people involved in the Birther hoax. Maybe we can begin with that rich guy who claimed to have investigators turning up all kinds of evidence that Obama wasn't a US citizen. What was his name again? Anyone remember? Donald something?

 

You've already looked about both links so you already know that neither of them are a joint statement from all 17 intelligence agencies. Saying "nowhere were any agencies in the USIC excluded from their joint statement" is nonsensical since both statements explicitly stated which intelligence agencies contributed. In no case were all 17 intelligence agencies contributing to these joint statements.

 

College will always be too expensive. Professors have incredible salaries backed up by tenure. It is all a Progressive game with exceptions of Liberty University and a few others. Global Warming is all a political ploy. Obama gave China 30 yrs. to do anything about their contribution.
You have to admit....it is a little hard to pass the needed reforms with the resist movement continually attacking with the help of leaks by the "deep state"" put in place by our previous Marxist executive. 98% of the press is negative, which would not be fair for any President. President Trump is discovering he must drain the swamp 1st before a great deal will be accomplished. In spite of that, things have looked up in the short time he's been in office.

 

Yet for some reason you are unable to point out where.. it's almost as if you're making things up... strange

 

Back on post 118, on Saturday.

Now show me a joint message from all 17 Intelligence agencies. I've already been waiting for several days while you've dodged and weaved.

 

Just stop

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07...omeland-security-and-office-director-national

 

..and where in that statement are agencies in the USIC excluded? point it out to me, please. If what you were claiming were true, then the original October statement wouldn't be from the USIC at all, but just DHS. A joint statement from the USIC that only includes one agency from USIC makes no sense at all

October statement

"The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations"

The December statement

"On October 7, 2016, Secretary Johnson and Director Clapper issued a joint statement that the intelligence community is confident the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from U.S. persons and institutions, including from U.S. political organizations, and that the disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks are consistent with the Russian-directed efforts. The statement also noted that the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia to influence public opinion there.

Today, DHS and FBI released a Joint Analysis Report (JAR) which further expands on that statement by providing details of the tools and infrastructure used by Russian intelligence services to compromise and exploit networks and infrastructure associated with the recent U.S. election, as well as a range of U.S. government, political and private sector entities"

So basically, last October the Intelligence Community (the intelligence community is a collection of 17 agencies) made a joint statement on Russia's involvement in meddling with our elections, then in December, DHS, the FBI, and the Director of Intelligence (the director of intelligence represents USIC) further expanded on the original statement by "providing details of tool and and infrastructure used by Russian intelligence"

This isn't a debate, that's what happened.. it's right there in the very links you provided.... and in case we needed further explanation for what the USIC is

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-17-intelligence-agencies-20170112-story.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community



The Intelligence Community is 17 agencies. The closest thing you have to back your argument is the December followup statement from DHS and the FBI, but even that statement refers to the October statement as being from the Intelligence Community. Furthermore, this all has been fact checked, and guess what the fact check says?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...y-clinton-blames-russia-putin-wikileaks-rele/

You're basically arguing that the statement is not from the USIC at all, when we know for a fact that it is from USIC, because it says so in the statement itself, and then it's repeated again in the December statement made by DHS, the FBI, and the Director of National Intelligence (the Director of National Intelligence is the head of the USIC, which again is a collection of 17 agencies)

 

Sigh, I've answered your question more than once and you are really not capable of understanding it, or reading apparently. I'm sorry, but it just seems that you're just not smart enough for this conversation. I wish you the best in your future endeavors .

 

Why do college costs increase far faster than inflation? Are college professors getting pay increases far faster than inflation?

We know CO2 is a significant greenhouse gas. You are wrong.

Obama was a child 30 years ago. I don't know what you are talking about.

Is the deep state the illuminati or nights templar? Any evidence for this big conspiracy or that our government is run by actual communists? Even the Chinese aren't actually communist anymore.

Conservative press is positive, liberal press is negative. And they are negative because Trump keeps doing bad things like leaking secrets to Russia without following proper protocol and wanting to uninsure 23 million people to pay for tax cuts for billionaires.

Thats right. I want to add that to my list. Still waiting for movement on that front.

You feel better emotionally because your orange man is president or has something actually been done to improve the lives of most Americans?

 

Odd. Every debate you ever enter in, you leave by saying the other person isn't smart enough. Keep running. It seems to be the MO when backed into lies.

 

Except that the "spirit behind" during that interchange was nothing but extremist alt right SPITEFULNESS towards the Dems for daring to uphold the Law of the Land.

No one, including an elected potus, is above the Law of the Land! Your Hater-in-Chief is violating the law by obstructing justice. His motivations for doing so are probably not altruistic but that remains to be determined by the criminal investigation into his campaign.

FTR I never make internet bets where there is an obligation because it is impossible to hold either party accountable. Furthermore I won't take that bet because the GOP has a nefarious reason to allow the Criminal-in-Chief to remain in office until AFTER 1/20/2019. I can see them dragging their feet and making excuses and generally doing whatever they can to keep him "officially" as the potus until that time. After that no one will want to have him around any longer.

 

You noticed that too?

It does seem to be his MO and it might even fall under the ruling of "trolling" but that would be up to the powers-that-be to decide.

 

Uhh.. no you haven't actually.. the original report is perfectly clear that this is a joint statement from the United States Intelligence Community.. it says so in the very links which you provided.. yet you seem to be claiming that the only agency involved in the October statement is DHS.. that makes zero sense, if DHS were the only agency involved in the statement, then it would not be a conclusion of the Intelligence Community at all (once again, the statement reads"The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations")

You cannot make this absurd interpretation of the October statement and expect people to take you seriously when you start talking about intelligence... but maybe you have a fact check to show you're correct.. oh no wait, that's me

Everyone can see this conversation and judge for themselves.

 

"You feel better emotionally because your orange man is president " Was Obama your "black man"? So color preference is what this is all about? I see your true sentiment.and it is non-emotional?

 

We are now finding out that it was the RUSSIANS that asked for the back channel, not Kushner! The idiotic 24/7 lamestreammedia push for the past four days is FALSE NEWS! Just like all the other false news they been pushing for the past seven months!

 

I know that it was a planned, well-executed terrorist attack. I know that Obama and his minions lied about it as long as they thought they could get away with it. And you still believe their lies!

 

There shouldn't even be an investigation involving the Trump campaign or campaign officials without evidence providing probable cause. There is *NO* evidence suggesting collusion at all. A years worth of investigation has provided nothing, absolutely nothing showing probable cause. What's going on now is a violation of the 4th Amendment!

 

Investigations are supposed to be based on evidence showing probable cause. Anything else is a violation of the 4th Amendment.
Leave to the progressives to ignore the Constitution. That's what they are good at!

 

Politics. It's all politics. Collusion is not a crime. Setting up back channels of communication is not a crime.
Exactly what crime do you think is being investigated?

 

Still nothing of import to offer, eh? Don't feel like you are alone. Progressives today never do, all they have a baseless allegations like "The GOP wants to kill the poor!"

 

Everyone is now saying there is no evidence of collusion by the Trump campaign *anywhere*. Senate Democrat, the FBI, James Clapper, Brennan, etc.

And yet the Democrats won't take this as proof there was no collusion. Again, how do you prove a negative?

 

And now we are finding out that it was the RUSSIANS that asked for the back channel!
You've been sucked in by FALSE NEWS being propagated by the lamestreammedia once again.
How many more times are you going to down the koolaid before you realize it is poison?