When will religion be overteken by logic?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by James Evans, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes. That's how religion works.

    However, it is NOT how science works.

    In fact, most people use "believe" as a synonym for think or suspect. And, we certainly have plenty of politicians and action groups who work hard toward objectives they are quite sure they won't achieve. In fact, Christians work toward goals they surely know are not going to be achieved.
     
  2. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    That is the way everything works, has always worked and will always work people don't generally attempt those things they don't believe they can do or have faith in their ability to accomplish be it worshiping God or building a railroad or trying to understand the forces that make the universe work as it does.
     
  3. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    No problem.

    Let's start with the war in Iraq. Started by Christians in the Bush administration and the US Congress, and supported by millions of Christian Americans.

    A war based on lies and fraud that has caused hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of innocent people to die needlessly.

    That alone is perhaps the most murderous and evil atrocity in recent history. In order to find something worse, you need to go back to the Vietnam war, also started, waged, and supported by American Christians.

    Gee, American Christians sure do love war. Makes you wonder if they're really Christians at all.
     
  4. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    You haven't explained anything, chief.
     
  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually..... there are at the minimum eleven invisible dimensions of space - time in order to unify electromagnetism, gravity, weak and strong unclear force into one fundamental or perhaps two.... energy or energies.

    There could turn out to be fundamental energy Super Strings as well as fundamental energy Super Waves..... but there are many invisible dimensions.......

    The description of these dimension by near death experiencer Dr. George Ritchie
    back in 1943 is kind of brilliant......

    https://www.near-death.com/experiences/exceptional/george-ritchie.html

    ..... but you are correct......
    taking care of other humans , especially our families... is what really matters!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  6. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Still struggling are ya? Poor fella. I thought you moved on to lick your wounds. Guess you’re just a glutton for punishment.
     
  7. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Who said anything about a white bearded guy?

    Why?

    Yeah, but in the absence of a higher power, what moral imperative is there to behave that way?
     
  8. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    You haven't explained anything, let alone punished me.
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    This is the best you could come up with? That was no Christian Crusade, and the idea that you might confuse that with one shows you're rather dim on the topic.
     
  10. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    None of this changes the fact that all mathematics and science are predicated upon axioms, and that axioms are essentially based on faith.
     
  11. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Let me know when you have an actual rebuttal of some sort. I'd be interested to read it.
     
  12. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Saying it over and over doesn’t actually make what you’re saying true. But I am enjoying your temper tantrum.
     
  13. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Because it’s the right thing to do....which I learned from my parents in the absence of whichever god you speak of.
     
  14. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    What an ironic thing for you to say.
     
  15. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    But WHY is it the right thing to do? That is what you keep failing to explain.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  16. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Let me try this again...because not stealing, for example, is a social contract that mutually benefits adherents. Do you not know this? I know this without religion in my life. How is it you don’t?
    My parents taught me right and wrong, in the absence of god. Sorry this bothers you. Sorry you need a fictitious character to guide you through life.
     
  17. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Why does that make it the right thing to do?

    How did your parents know the difference between right and wrong?

    How do you know God is fictitious?
     
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    You said the Iraq invasion was some sort of Christian jihad. I don't need a rebuttal because your idea is just too stupid to take seriously.
     
  19. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Banned

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    There is faith based upon observation, subjecting theoretical explanations to repeated experiment to derive consistent empirical data, and there is faith that addresses emotional need.

    The latter is, necessarily, subjective, as is demonstrated by science largely transcending the diversity of culture to attain a global consensus whilst religion is characterized by widely divergent, enduring dogmas.
     
  20. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    No I didn't.

    Why should I care if you take my idea seriously? Your feelings don't change the truth.
     
  21. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Reason and faith are not mutually exclusive concepts.
     
  22. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Banned

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    Of course not Humans are both rational and emotional.
     
  23. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    You remind me of my kids when they were 3...why daddy? Why? Why? Why? Why?
    Look, clearly you’re pi55y because I don’t believe in god and despite not having god in my life I have learned right and wrong. How is it, without god in my life I know it’s wrong to molest children yet priests, who DO have god in their life, don’t know it’s wrong?
    My parents learned from their parents and through societal norms.
    Since god and religion is arbitrary then it can’t be real. Basically your religion is dictated by where you happen to be born.
     
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  24. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    So you have no explanation, just like I said earlier.
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You're switching definitions again. When you decide to build a railroad you aren't betting your everlasting life. In fact, your making a calculation that includes protecting yourself in the case of bankruptcy and laying off risk on others. You probably take care to not bet every last dime you own and consider what options you will have if you fail. That version of faith/belief are confidence, not absolute and eternal like when you bet on your god.

    Sometimes you want believe and faith to be absolute - no hedges, no plan B. Other times you want it to be more like self confidence.

    Is your religious belief similar to self confidence where you have a plan B if your religion fails you or is it absolute?

    Let's stop playing word games. "Believe" means something different in religion and there is NO analog in science.
     

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