When will religion be overteken by logic?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by James Evans, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    they are not religions, religions can be theistic or atheistic or both - the terms artiest and theist just signifies if one believes in a God or not

    no religion required to not believe in a mythical God

    but your saying all theist believe in the 'thiest' religion - if that were true, both Muslims and Christians believe in the same 'thiest' religion - I am saying 'thiest' is not a religion, 'thiest''s can have a religion

    if a God does not believe in a creator of himself, is he an atheist?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  2. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Active Member

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    Argument By Repetition Fallacy.

    WRONG. God(s) cannot be proven/disproven. The theory is unfalsifiable. Only religion can address unfalsifiable theories.

    Argument From Ignorance Fallacy.

    Correct. They all believe that god(s) exist.

    Correct, and that IS true. Both Muslims and Christians DO believe that God exists.

    They disagree about the details of that God, however, and also disagree about which scriptures are 'holy', and etc...

    Theism is a religion. Other religions which stem from Theism simply further "flesh out" the details of the god(s) that is believed in. Any belief regarding the existence or non-existence of god(s) is a religious belief. Unfalsifiable theories can only be addressed by religion.

    No. He is simply aware that he is God.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can only state the facts, obvious some will still disagree

    if a God doesn't believe he was created by a higher creator, then he is an atheist
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  4. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's just stupid.
     
  5. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More BS. Who's trying to deny anyone's rights. The word is except not accept. Don't want to explain why you're using fictional testimony do you? Don't want to explain why you're here every day harassing theists do you.
     
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    lol, you get why we think it's stupid when Christians say there must be a creator then... cool

    that fact is, if everything needs a creator cause it's so complex, then a god would be more complex and even more need a creator
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    oh please...why are you defending the indefensible

    they been trying to do it forever

    -----

    "Huckabee: Amend Constitution to Reflect God's Standards "



    -----

    "The Palin Principle – Bible trumps Constitution"

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/10/sarah-palin-american-law_n_569922.html

    "Go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant — they’re quite clear — that we would create law based on the God of the bible and the ten commandments." - Palin

    -----

    "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And, but for the interference with his arrangement, there would be no cause for such marriage. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."
    -Judge Leon M. Bazile (January 6, 1959)

    -Don Quoteman
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  8. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Prove that the love I have for my family is caused by hormones, I'll wait.
     
  9. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    Oxycotin causes feelings of love and attachment. This includes between family members. In fact, when a mother doesn't become bond with and become attached to her child, which is called Child Attachment Disorder, it's caused by a lack of oxycotin.
     
  10. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, is there no logical religion? And if not, is there any reason why one cannot be made?
     
  11. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    That's as dumb as asking if God can do anything, can he make a rock so big he can't pick it up?
     
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  12. perdidochas

    perdidochas Advisor Staff Member

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    Oxytocin. (Oxycotin sounded like a synthetic narcotic).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yep, so dumb to say a God can do anything, knowing there would be things he could not do... your starting to get it
     
  14. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Link?
     
  15. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To answer the OP.
    Likely never.
     
  16. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pretty sure you're reaching for endorphins.
     
  17. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    No endorphins cause feelings of happiness. Oxytocin causes attachment and emotional bnndig.
     
  18. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    I got tired of waiting for you to prove it so I researched it myself. Your claim is overly simplistic and inadequate. Either that or you don't know what love is.
     
  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not sure about Fresh but I will jump in on that one. The religious right jumped into politics ... trying to force their religious belief on others through physical violence (Law).
     
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  20. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    I don't count Catholics since they don't believe the Bible.
     
  21. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Actually just the opposite is true. American law was built and founded on Christian principles. It was the atheists trying to force their (ir)religious beliefs on others through physical violence (law) that prompted the religious right to get involved in politics. The same is still true today. Christians weren't oppressing homosexuals, but homosexuals sure are trying to oppress Christians today.
     
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you do know it was Christian infighting that brought about religious freedom right, Christians trying to push their version of Christianity on other Christians - Atheists did not have the numbers to make that happen
     
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    it's ok to disagree with Christians that use their religion to discriminate against others or try to use the government to push their religion on others

    stop making religion a political issue and it wont be discussed on a political board, but your harassing those you see as non-Christians that disagree with you won’t silence them

    it's ok to have different beliefs, it's not ok to discriminate against customers based on those beliefs
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US system was based on separation of Church and State... not integration of the two (Theocracy). You are confused.

    Your claim that atheists were trying to force their religious beliefs on others prompted the religious right to get into politics is abject nonsense but, regardless .. two wrongs do not make a right.
     
  25. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    That was Jefferson's view of the US system, but it wasn't shared by the other founding fathers. Even Jefferson later modified his position after founding the University of Virginia. I've posted these before, but here are some quotes from some of our founding fathers on the principles of state and religion. Please note that this isn't a simple dichotomy, that either we have a theocracy or we have no principles of religion in government. That's not how it works. A theocracy only occurs when you have a state religion, when the religious leaders are also your state leaders, when no other religions or religious viewpoints are tolerated. I would argue that we have more of a theocracy today than we did when the country was founded on religious beliefs, and the state religion today is secular humanism, but that's an argument for another time.

    "No one can deny that many of the founding fathers of the United States of America were men of deep religious convictions based in the Bible and faith in Jesus Christ. Of the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence, nearly half (24) held seminary or Bible school degrees.

    These Christian quotes of the founding fathers on religion will give you an overview of their strong moral and spiritual convictions which helped form the foundations of our nation and our government." Mary Fairchild, introducing the quotes below

    "The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty...

    "Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System." John Adams

    "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever..." Thomas Jefferson

    "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry

    https://www.learnreligions.com/christian-quotes-of-the-founding-fathers-700789

    "Our country is blessed to have a rich heritage of faith – our foundations are uniquely Christian. Scriptural beliefs and principles are woven into all the foundational documents and events, which were undergirded by prayer because of the Godly Christian men and women who sacrificed and worked to make this nation a reality. Looking at our historical origins, it is undeniable that we literally began as One Nation Under God." Gingi Freeman, introducing the below quotes

    “We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams

    “Before any man can be considered as a member of civil society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe.” James Madison, speaking against the establishment of a religion in Virginia

    “Is it not that in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? – that it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? – that it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?” John Quincy Adams

    “Righteousness alone can exalt [America] as a nation. Reader! Whoever thou art, remember this; and in thy sphere practice virtue thyself, and encourage it in others…[T]he great pillars of all government and of social life: I mean virtue, morality, and religion. This is the armor, my friend, and this alone, that renders us invincible.” Patrick Henry

    “To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness, which mankind now enjoys…Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government – and all blessings which flow from them – must fall with them.” Jedediah Morse

    “We’ve been assured in the sacred writings that unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain who build it. I firmly believe this, and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.” Benjamin Franklin

    “Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. …Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other.” James Wilson, signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and one of the original Supreme Court justices.


    http://domesticgeekgirl.com/uncateg...istian-quotes-from-americas-founding-fathers/

    Here's an interesting one: From John Locke they [the American colonists] inherited the idea that atheists cannot be good citizens and should not be brought into the social contract; in “A Letter Concerning Toleration,” Locke had written, “Those are not at all to be tolerated who deny the being of a God.”

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/29/why-are-americans-still-uncomfortable-with-atheism


    Note, too, that when the country was founded, it was founded by people who had fled the religious oppression and religious wars of Europe and wished to prevent anything similar happening in the United States. But nearly everyone in the US was Christian of some sort or another, and atheism and disbelief were far less known then than now. There were only about 2,500 Jews in the US in 1790 out of 3.9 million people total, less than 1/10th of 1% of the total. So it wasn't that the founding fathers were overly worried about the American government being too Christian, they were worried about it becoming too denominational.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019

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