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Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by DennisTate, Jul 13, 2016.

?

The first Intelligence began in.....?

  1. Carbon based life less than 5 billion years ago, on earth.

    7 vote(s)
    41.2%

  2. Carbon based life in outer space.

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%

  3. Fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.

    6 vote(s)
    35.3%

  4. This is a new question that I am only now facing.

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
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  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am no expert on semantics and your term.... deist.......
    might be even more accurate than Evolutionary Theist........
    but I think that Evolutionary Theist gets an important basic idea
    across to my intended audience.

    True science... .and true spirituality...... do not contradict each other at all......

    https://www.near-death.com/religion/atheism.html
     
    DennisTate, Jun 12, 2018
    #126
  2. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    No evidence either way and what kind of intelligence are you talking about? Self awareness, consciousness, or the just the ability to learn multiple topics quickly. The first two we don't even understand the nature of whatsoever, therefore The OP is a null question.

    If you were to use one hypothesis about the nature of quantum mechanics (collapse from conscious observation), I would say the answer to consciousness probably lies in a unique organic quantum configuration (not yet understood), but like I said before, it's only speculation at it's best.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
    redeemer216, Jun 13, 2018
    #127
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  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you research the Dr. Chaim Tejman writings you might just change your mind.

    Dr. Chaim Tejman deserves Origin of Life Prize.

    http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/book/life1.htm
     
    DennisTate, Jun 13, 2018
    #128
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think I will give what I believe is the explanation for the following information....... before quoting it.........
    because it is kind of scary.

    I believe that fundamental energy Super Strings.......
    and fundamental energy Super Waves......
    or as Dr. Chaim Tejman terms it..... Super Energetic Matter.........

    might perhaps appears as curious worms..... and a lake of fire.............
    to somebody overly selfish....... (vibrating at a low energetic level)...........


    http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/index.html
    A bit of healthy fear......... of our becoming so selfish and self centered.......that we tackle the afterlife alone........... is not an entirely bad thing!

     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
    DennisTate, Aug 8, 2018
    #129
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And where did this being come from and live?
     
    Bluesguy, Aug 11, 2018
    #130
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  6. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    His Mind.
     
    tecoyah, Aug 11, 2018
    #131
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  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Chapter 13 of "Stephen Hawking's Universe" entitled The Anthropic Principle goes into
    an Agnostic explanation for The Cyclic Model of the Universe.

    If you have read it I think that this account will remind you of it.

    https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05

    Fundamental energy would exist for infinite time previous to the latest Big Bang event that could well have been about 13.72 billion or so years ago..........
    www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
    DennisTate, Aug 11, 2018
    #132
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well I'm asking you a simple question

    And where did this being come from and live? Give me your brief synopsis.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
    Bluesguy, Aug 11, 2018
    #133
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  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's a serious question.
     
    Bluesguy, Aug 11, 2018
    #134
  10. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was a serious (and obvious) answer.
     
    tecoyah, Aug 12, 2018
    #135
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you really want the answer to that question..... buy the book
    'Stephen Hawking's Universe'
    and read chapter 13 that is entitled The Anthropic Principle.......

    Why would Dr. Stephen Hawking talk about an infinite number of Big Bang type events going back to infinite time in the past....... if there was no type of energy that would exist....... previous to the most recent Big Bang type event of 13.72 years ago.

    Dr. Hawking admits that it is so unlikely to have electromagnetism, gravity, weak and strong nuclear force........ all at magnitudes conducive to life..... .as we know it...... that he thinks there could well be a nearly infinite number of universes out there...... or back there somewhere..... in which was no life anything like we think of life...........

    Those who chose:
    "Fundamental or nearly fundamental energy."
    as the answer to the poll...... are in agreement with what Stephen Hawking Ph. D. wrote......


    http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/Book4/Html/Origin_of_life.htm
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
    DennisTate, Aug 13, 2018
    #136
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well I'm trying to have a conversation with you, telling someone to go buy a book is not very conductive to that.................oh well.
     
    Bluesguy, Aug 14, 2018
    #137
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  13. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    In some cases it hasn't begun yet.
     
    yasureoktoo, Aug 14, 2018
    #138
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  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you... .and sorry.... I have been kind of busy these past couple of days.............

    Basically it comes down to...........

    1. would some form of fundamental energy exist even before the Big Bang event?

    2. Is some form of fundamental energy implied by String Theory?

    3. If fundamental energy existed previous to the Big Bang....... would it have existed even before the existence of space..... which would correspond with the beginning of "time" at least somewhat like we experience time?

    I get into all of this as best as I could in this blog......

    www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/
     
    DennisTate, Aug 15, 2018
    #139
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    DennisTate, Aug 15, 2018
    #140
  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I asked YOU a question and you respond with questions................oh well.
     
    Bluesguy, Aug 15, 2018
    #141
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  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps I am listening to too much Jewish material on Youtube?????

    Plus I am a janitor..... not a theoretical physicist..........
    I use quotations because they really are the best that I can do......




    Could Rabbi Alon Anava be more like Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus than any Christian on earth?


    .... but this is something that I did write myself.......

    www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/


    I actually do believe in evolution but I think that anybody who would dogmatically limit evolution to our four dimensional space time continuum lacks basic mathematical aptitude.

    Back in the 1990's I read several articles on GUT and string theory. Later on I read Stephen Hawking's Universe. in his chapter The Anthropic Principle he speculated that perhaps there were an infinite number of unsuccessful universes out there somewhere in which was no life due to the fact that electromagnetism, gravity, weak and strong nuclear force were not properly tuned for life as we know it. It seems obvious to me that another possibility is that the first intelligent life form might be composed of energy. Probably a fundamental energy such as SuperForce or Super Energetic Matter which may be the common denominator for all four forces active in our fourth space time dimensional continuum.

    13.72 billion years is roughly equal to ZERO time when compared with eternity. If fundamental energy would always have existed, as I assume Dr. Hawking seems to believe due to his suspicion of their having been an infinite number of unsuccessful universes and probably Big Bang + Grand Collapses, then if evolutionary theory could be expanded to have occurred within infinite time as opposed to limiting abiogenesis and evolution to abouit 4.5 billion years than you increase the probability of evolution being possible by essentially an infinite factor! I do believe in evolution occurring, but I suspect that perhaps 99% of evolution probably occurred before our Big Bang which was probably planned and choreographed by the Life Form/life forms that would probably be composed of fundamental energy.

    Is evolution more probable to have occurred within 13 billion years or within eternity?

    I must admit that these ideas about invisible higher space time dimensions sure does remind me of what many people who have a brush with death report.
    http://www.near-death.com/ritchie.html#a05
     
    DennisTate, Aug 15, 2018
    #142
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well said..... it is now considered obvious by scientists that something existed previous to the Big Bang event.

    https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/what-is-and-isnt-scientific-about-the-multiverse-507aea967db0
    What Is (And Isn’t) Scientific About The Multiverse
    Our best physical theories predict that a multiverse exists. But if we can’t test it, is it really scientific?

     
    DennisTate, Oct 17, 2018
    #143
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This being would be composed of the energy that existed long before the Big Bang event.

    What Is (And Isn’t) Scientific About The Multiverse
    Our best physical theories predict that a multiverse exists. But if we can’t test it, is it really scientific?
    And I think that it is important to note... that Multiverse Theory..... could fulfill Ezekiel chapter 37... .the resurrection of all the previously deceased...... as a replica of each person is recreated within a new time line...........

    https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/ezek/37?lang=eng
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
    DennisTate, Oct 17, 2018
    #144
  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well said......
    you might want to get into this debate that has gone over 25,000 views already:

    Atheist vs Theist
     
    DennisTate, Nov 2, 2018
    #145
  21. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A good article....

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/8/sciences-godless-problem/

    Science's godless problem
     
    DennisTate, Nov 8, 2018
    #146
  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is logical:

    Subject: Holographic Universe
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
    DennisTate, Dec 12, 2018
    #147
  23. Major Atheist

    Major Atheist Newly Registered

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    Why isn't "I don't know" one of the choices? I'm assuming you have some knowledge of the atheist community. Why miss the opportunity to deal with one of the major talking points of most atheist sources: "I don't know" is a fine answer, and at that an honest one.
     
    Major Atheist, Jan 16, 2019
    #148
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  24. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Frankly that is a brilliant reply to this topic and you have my apologies for not thinking of that at the time that I wrote up the poll!

    One of the most brilliant Theoretical Physicists that I met online stated that the most well informed Skeptics.... term themselves Agnostics rather than Atheists..... because there is just no way to know for certain.


    I hope a GOD exists but I am not holding my breath!

    I personally am an Evolutionary Theist...... I believe that a Being composed of fundamental or nearly fundamental energy......of "godlike" technological capability learned, experimented and evolved over infinite time in the past.... whereas an Adam and Eve pair were created.... (partly to fix up the first attempted coup).... led by a "Covering Cherub".. .whatever that means?!

    www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
    DennisTate, Jan 16, 2019
    #149
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