Where Did the Trinity Teaching Come From?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Alter2Ego, May 11, 2012.

  1. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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  2. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member Past Donor

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    garyd:

    The mere mentioning of three entities in the same sentence is supposed to mean they are the same individual? Next you will be arguing that if you, your father, and something that belongs to your father are mention within the same sentence, then the three entities mention are a single human being; right?

    If you had bothered to read the context to Matthew 28:19, you would have seen what Jesus meant. But like all Trinitarians, you chose to ignore context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters).

    Alter2Ego
     
  3. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member Past Donor

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    garyd:

    Nowhere in scripture does Jesus Christ state that he and the Father are "one and the same." In fact, I challenge you to present the exact verse of scripture within your next post, and provide the Bible book and verse along with the quotation where Jesus supposedly said he and the Father are "one and the same."

    I am familiar with the verse of scripture where Thomas referred to Jesus as "my Lord and my God." It is a favorite of Trinitiarians because it one of the verses that they can easily cherry-pick, while they ignore the context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters). As soon as you give me the Bible book and verse where Thomas referred to Jesus as "my Lord and my God," we can proceed with the discussion of that particular verse of scripture.

    Alter2Ego
     
  4. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    perhaps it is implied in the bible
    But imo the deeper question to what extent the bible corresponds to the teaching of jesus. In the same way that you identify the time gap before the trinity became creedal, there is also a substantial time and first hand teaching gap between jesus life and the writing of the gospels. So that even the flimsy biblical support for the trinity is yet further eroded by the gap between Jesus teaching and the written bible
    no he did not
    And while jesus was certainly the inspiration of christianity, there is no reason to believe that jesus intentionally founded a new religion called Christianity
    there is no evidence they taught the trinity
    no clue. But it certainly did not come from jesus
    Not that i know of

    Constantine wanted to unify the church by resolving entrenched differences. He did this by saying that contradictory ideas are all true... and celebrated the the squaring of the circle as a mystery.... f you claim you understand it then you don’t understand it
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Now your just being silly. First in order to understand the concept of the Trinity you'll have to work your way through the Athanasian Creed. There are not three entities but one manifesting for human beings in the form of three persons. Not for his benefit but for ours. It doesn't help since unity divided by three is still really big. If your going to ignore the Bibles repeated references to the various persons of the Trinity there isn't much I can do to convince you.
     
  6. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The God of the bible is one. There is only one true God of the bible. However, whenever the God of the bible acts, the intent is always attributed to the Father, the affect is always attributed to the Holy Spirit and the effect is always attributed to the Son. The only times that the bible ever makes a distinction between the persons of the trinity is when God acts, and it is always in the economy I outlined above. One can say that Jesus is effectively God. The Holy Spirit is affectively God, and the Father is, for all intents and purposes, God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit each have their own individual intellects, emotions and wills; that's what makes them individual persons. However, their individual intellects, emotions and wills are infinitely identical; that's what makes them one.
     
  7. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    And you've just revealed that when you have to give the answers instead of preaching you can't.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  8. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Quote from Jesus. " before Abraham was, I am"

    Jesus claimed to be God and claimed to be sent from God.

    2 persons of the God head..

    Lots of references to the holy spirit..

    Trinitarianism is very simple, read the bible.

    Lots of OT references to God are also plural.
     
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  9. Thehumankind

    Thehumankind Well-Known Member

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    2 Corinthians 13:14

    14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy spirit be with you all.
     
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  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh that is complete nonsense. Mere desperation on the part of Trinity Doctrine adherents to try to explain away parts of the Bible that refer to other Gods.

    Abraham - and the Israelite's under Moses - believed in the existence of many Gods - a divine Pantheon. They were not polytheist as they were only to worship one God.

    The references to the "Sons of God" in the Bible are just that - references to the numerous Sons of God.
     
  11. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    It came from the bible itself
     
  12. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Starting in Genesis 1. "Let US make man in OUR image...."
     
  13. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member Past Donor

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    garyd:

    Any person who considers him or herself a Christian follower of Jesus Christ is in deep trouble if they have to rely on the Athanasian Creed--a fabricated doctrine--that showed up in the Catholic Church in the 5th Century AD. This is confirmed by numerous sources, including the source quoted below

    "Athanasian Creed

    A Latin document composed in the Western Church, the creed was unknown to the Eastern Church until the 12th century. Since the 17th century, scholars have generally agreed that the Athanasian Creed was not written by Athanasius (died 373) but was probably composed in southern France during the 5th century. Many authors have been suggested, but no definite conclusions have been reached. In 1940 the lost Excerpta of Vincent of Lérins (flourished 440) was discovered, and this work contains much of the language of the creed. Thus, either Vincent or an admirer of his has been considered the possible author."
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Athanasian-Creed


    For your information, the writing of the Judeo-Christian Bible--which was written under inspiration from Jehovah--was completed in the 1st Century AD--four hundred years before the Athanasian Creed was dreamed up by Trinitarians.

    Your above argument fails in light of the fact you are relying on the fabricated Athanasian Creed.

    Try again.

    On your next try, stick to the Judeo-Christian Bible--the only book written by inspiration of God.


    Alter2Ego.
     
  14. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member Past Donor

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    Thehumankind:

    2 Corinthians 13:14 says nothing about three persons combined into one god. Mentioning three entities in the same sentence does not equate to "they are they same god." I will ask you the same question that I asked a previous poster:

    QUESTION #1 TO THEHUMANKIND: Does the mere mentioning of you, your father, and your father's possession--in the same sentence--mean all three of you are the same human being? How do you answer?

    The fact is that you ignored the context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters) to 2 Corinthians 13:14. I will direct you to part of the context after you answer the following question.

    QUESTION #2 TO THEHUMANKIND: If someone has a God, it means that the person's God is more superior than the person. TRUE or FALSE?


    Alter2Ego
     
  15. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member Past Donor

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    william kurps:

    That is your opinion. Now, prove it with scriptures from God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. You are to present only three (3) scriptures at a time. Include an explanation for each scripture as to why you believe the particular text is talking Trinity.

    Alter2Ego
     
  16. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Which bible as reference would you like..From Hebrew, Greek, aramaic?

    I am not allowed to post in those languages per the rules here..even if I did you would never understand, only a believer in God/ jesus / holy spirit and mother Mary can comprehend the bible

    To others it's just word salad and they love to take it out of context
     
  17. Thehumankind

    Thehumankind Well-Known Member

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    Let`s have a healthy discussion,

    Answer No.1
    As a human being I could not and I could not equate myself to God whatsoever. I`m or else we are just human beings created by God, Jesus Christ the Son of God, The Holy Spirit, and God the almighty itself truly exist and being one in essence, substance or nature is plausible for they ought only for my salvation and be with God`s grace.

    Answer No.2
    The "Superior" makes the statement false, for as always we are one with God, as we are God`s creation.

    I have a question, can you define God Jehovah.
     
  18. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member Past Donor

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    william kurps:

    You are stalling. Surely you don't expect anyone reading this thread to believe that you don't have access to a Judeo-Christian Bible written in English.

    I am waiting to see scriptural quotations from you that you believe are talking Trinity.

    Alter2Ego
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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  19. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    . There are three Major Christian Creeds all support the Trinity. All came about in response to various unitarian heresies none of which are supported by the Bible. The first the Apostles Creed appears to have appeared during apostolic times and reflects the teaching of the apostles themselves. The next the Nicene Creed was written by the first council of Nicea in 325 AD in Response to the Arian Heresy. We've already mentioned the Athansian Creed that I sometimes refer to as the lawyers version.
     
  20. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    I am not stalling, I am playing..


    I know the Catechism and protestants bibles real well.. I am just waiting for you and others to slip up and go for the kill
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Then there is the first Chapter of the Gospel According to John. It begins In the Beginning the word was with God and the word was God.
     
  22. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Your an atheist, wrong

    This is what I figured.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  23. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member Past Donor

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    Thehumankind:

    You are dodging question #1, which is simply this: "Does the mere mentioning of you, your father, and your father's possession--in the same sentence--mean all three of you are the same human being?"

    The answer is a simple YES or NO response. The fact that you refused to answer the question says it all. It indicates you recognize the conflict: Namely, since you, your father, and your fathers possession are NOT a single human being, then your cherry-picked verse of scripture in which the Father (Jehovah), the Son (Jesus Christ) and God's holy spirit are mentioned (2 Corinthians 13:14) cannot be used to argue that those three entities are a single god, particularly since the verse DOES NOT say they are the same god. It merely mentions them together.

    Similarly, you are dodging Question 2: "If someone has a God, it means that the person's God is more superior than the person. TRUE or FALSE?" You are giving me the illogical reply that "Superior" makes the statement false because "we are one with God, as we are God's creation."

    My suggestion to you is that you go to a credible online dictionary and look up the meaning of the word "god." I will provide you with the definition from one dictionary. Feel free to look up the word within other dictionaries online.

    Definition of god
    (Entry 1 of 2)

    1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: such as
    a: the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god
    According to that definition above, God is a Being that is "perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness" and "worshipped as creator."

    QUESTION #3 TO THEHUMANKIND: Since you claim you are "one with God" and that therefore, the use of the word superior -- when applied to God -- is a false statement, are you telling me and everybody else reading this thread that you are perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness, that you are worshipped as creator, and therefore, the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible is not superior to you?


    Alter2Ego
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  24. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member Past Donor

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    william kurps:

    I asked you to prove your claim: that Trinity is in the Judeo-Christian Bible. Obviously, you are now on the run, which explains why you are accusing me of being atheist.

    Exactly when can the forum expect you to start quoting supposed Trinity verses?


    Alter2Ego
     
  25. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Do you want to believe in jesus christ as your savior? Roman's 10:9

    Son I can help you.
     

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