Where is the answer to this mess?

That moment lasted 24hrs. If that's your only win in this, I'm sorry for you.

 

The sample size is utterly irrelevant. This isn't a study of their actions, or even preferences, it's a study of POSSIBILITY. Even if only one person did what those Cambodians did .. it would still prove the premise that there are no systemic obstacles involved.

The only obstacles are personal. And because they are personal, there's nothing any of us can do about it. It's a matter for each individual to work through for themselves. They have the facts (that there are no systemic obstacles), and make their choices accordingly. That some choose not to avail themselves of the opportunities in the way that migrants so often do, is utterly irrelevant.

 

Nope, never even tried.

 

Wrong, some are common.

 

Factions that barely exist don't destroy the fabric of a nation- so I have to disagree. They not only exist, but they are toxic and contagious. That's very dangerous.
Much of the key here is the concept of honor- of self respect. Honor is the glue that bonds men to sound values, and that demands of them that they treat their countrymen with respect and fairness too.
Honor is self-regulation that is programmed into us when we grow up in a sound, nurturing environment- or are strong enough to carve out for ourselves.
That is the key to people trusting each other, working together, being reasonable and fair. That condition is deteriorating rapidly in America today.
In a safe society- those without honor are limited in their abuse of others by laws and social parameters. Those- must be enforced. MUST BE.

Because, as every successful parent knows, as every good teacher knows and every good business manager knows and coach and many more know-

IF THE RULES ARE NOT ENFORCED THEN YOU HAVE NO RULES- ANYTHING GOES.

The condition of a society directly reflects that status, and ours today says our honor is falling apart because we are not enforcing the rational rules that a sound society must have.
We are attacking the police- and going soft on criminals. Denial and lying and propaganda are rampant. The president is violating federal law everyday, and nobody is complaining. The government is using legal means to silence criticism and punish people who don't follow orders. That level of moral corruption has spread to military, education and most agencies of government, both federal and local/state.

Makes no difference how old you are; chaos is chaos and good for nobody. The foolish don't realize that, but they will find it true, and it will be too late by the time they do.
That situation has got to be corrected.

 

Not sure where you came up with "demanding by law what others must do." There is no demand. If a person wants to be a renter their entire life, and not reap the rewards of owning their own home, that is fine. But if a person wants to live off taxpayer largesse for the majority of their life while making minimal effort to get off of said largesse, well, that is something to be absolutely ashamed about. Because they are "demanding by law" that other hardworking souls give of their labor and their resources to the person living off the taxpayer. A few decades ago, people were ashamed to be on the government dole, and rightly so. Now those on the dole feel entitled to the handout as if everyone else owes them a living. By not becoming financially self-sufficient, they are missing out on the joys of seeing the fruits of their own sweat and labor result in their own security and self-esteem.

Concerning building your own home and your misleading use of "two people." - I know those two people personally which is why I mentioned them. But I also mentioned the Cambodian immigrants from the neighborhood down the road who built most of their own houses. And I mentioned how Hispanics have a tradition of gathering the family up and building their own houses too. And, a multitude of other people have built their own homes. And going back throughout history, billions of people have built their own homes.

In addition to those above, my wife and I built the majority of our home and saved a ton of money... and gained an increase in net worth of close to a half million dollars over the years when you consider the gain in equity and not having paid interest on a big mortgage. So I fully realize that building a home is possible. And considering that my thoughts are "STUPID," if stupid me can build my own home and make those gains in my net worth, well, any halfway intelligent person could do the same. And when I sit here in my house and look at all the things that my wife and I built with our own hands, wow, what a fantastic feeling!

Now, you obviously realize that there are way more than two people in this world who have built their own houses. Your use of all caps with the word "stupid" and "moon" and "any" and "you" leads one to believe that you are very angry - but just because you don't believe you or others could build their own home doesn't mean that others have that same limiting mentality. I suppose if a person were raised in the big city and never spent any time around "deplorable country folk," then their view of what is possible would be limited. A person who never used a skil saw to cut a board, or never drove a 16 penny nail with a framing hammer, or never used a screw gun, or never lugged shingles up a ladder, would certainly have a mental block about those things. But really, just about anyone could learn to do those things if they would just open their mind and consider the possibilities.

Below are some links related to building one's own home affordably. Included in those links are examples of people who built their own homes, or a large percentage of their own homes.

https://www.today.com/home/mom-builds-house-youtube-tutorials-t107077

https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/buildings/kit-homes-kit-houses

https://www.homelight.com/blog/buyer-how-to-build-a-house-yourself/

https://www.bobvila.com/slideshow/19-kit-homes-you-can-buy-and-build-yourself-44417

https://blog.cheapism.com/kit-homes-you-can-buy-online/#slide=6

https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/tech/wikihouse-build-your-own-house/index.html

https://www.finehomebuilding.com/forum/building-a-house-over-several-years

https://www.getrichslowly.org/reader-story-how-i-built-my-house-without-a-mortgage/

And below is a link to how a person got into an existing home and then rented out the upstairs while she lived in the basement... her renters paid the mortgage. And she was building generational wealth - good for her - very smart lady!

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-...ough-homeownership_n_5f15c169c5b6cec246c5fb6a

 

So your claim: "Just fine, no laws of physics involved." isn't legitimate.

We're discussing how low income earners buy property, remember.

 

Irrelevant. Fat people are common too, but that doesn't mean there's a mysterious force preventing people from losing weight.

 

With respect to poor people, one thing in common is poor nutrition, and that WILL affect everything else.

 

Odum was an ecologist. Hall is an ecologist.

 

Dr. Hanna Straight lives in her truck camper and I see nothing from her she is homeless. Her home is not large is all.

 

The extremes barely exist they are more useful as a scapegoat.

I disagree they exist on the margins they are the fringe. But as long as they can be related to everybody that disagrees with me it inflates their influence.

Think about how often white supremacists is evoked. There simply aren't enough of them to make an impact on anything. It's used more as a figurehead to demonize others and poison the well.

The dishonorable fringe despises that reality. They can't touch it if we don't balkanize.

We can't expect others to enforce it for us especially since the traditional enforcers have been taken over.

The duty falls on who it always has.

Because, as every successful parent knows, as every good teacher knows and every good business manager knows and coach and many more know-

They know it's true and they despise it.

 

One of the wisest men I ever met in person is this man. And his truth is for all of us.

Jim Rohn Quotes

• “Don't say, 'If I could, I would. ...
• “Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better. ...
• “Either you run the day or the day runs you.”
• “Without a sense of urgency, desire loses its value.”
• “If you don't like how things are, change it! ...
• “How long should you try?

40 Jim Rohn Quotes You'll Never Forget
Written by Meg Prater @Meg_Prater

When people get ill, they go to their doctor. They are fools if they diagnose themselves.
Rohn told us his full story that is not presented here.
I recall the absolute rapture his audience had. And to this day t his man still teaches, though dead.

Chances are, you’ve heard, seen, or even used a Jim Rohn quote -- whether you knew it or not. Rohn was an entrepreneur, author, and motivational speaker. His early years were spent in direct sales. In 1963, Rohn discovered he had a talent for public speaking. He went on to present personal development seminars worldwide for more than 40 years, until his death in 2009.

Life coach Tony Robbins, sales expert and author Brian Tracy, and “Chicken Soup” series creator Jack Canfield count Rohn as a mentor. And his legacy of hard work and extraordinary living remains an active influence on dreamers and doers everywhere thanks to his many motivational quotes. Here are few of my favorites.
Oh, and if you’d rather get your daily dose of quotes from fearless female leaders, click here.
https://blog.hubspot.com/sales/jim-rohn-quotes

 

Yep, a camper, which is specifically made to be lived in.

 

Granted at some point you might have to get dirty, but in all fairness you have to take a shower as well.

 

Bullsh!t. Nothing is cheaper than rice, beans, and in-season produce. Much cheaper (and much healthier) than fast and convenience foods.

 

yup, and they’ve written multiple books about the economy, specifically dealing with energy and economics. Really good stuff.

Hall’s books “Energy Return on Investment: A Unifying Principle for Biology, Economics, and Sustainability” and “Energy and the Wealth of Nations” changed my view on the economy and it’s relationship with energy forever. I highly recommend both.

 

I think we have similar views of this, just looking at different aspects of it. My question in this thread is how we correct the distortion and breakdown of the glue that holds a good society together..
When people can only focus on what is wrong- they can get their priorities all screwed up. The success of the future is vastly more important than the wrong so today- and unless we can improve the way we we manage our society in the future, the wrongs of today will be the wrongs of tomorrow- multiplied.

I believe there is a place to start, to put our society and nation back on course. IF we can do that , we then have the tools to deal with all the details. If we remain obsessed with subjective individual complaints, we obscure that objective and it will never be reached.

 

Well for one stop being so easily manipulated by the media, and stop being so dismissive of people we disagree with

We have to see each other as countrymen and not this tribe or that.

It'll fizzle out sooner or later it'll probably happen again in another 50 or do years. Seems to be on that cycle.

 

Poly, the problem we face today is unprecedented- and while it may fizzle in the long run, it has the potential to destroy the nation in the meantime, and it's far into previously uncharted territory now.

Changes that have occurred are all related to loss of values, producing loss of freedoms and the principles that support freedoms.
Without question the media has a vast responsibility here. More than perhaps any other, because it has condoned discarding it's own values to become political propaganda machines, is the disguise of journalism as it used to be. When the rules no longer contain the worst of our motivations, they take over- because in all of us there is a child who once functioned totally on the basis of emotion and self-serving purposes.
We LEARN to adopt the values that allow us to become a society and work together; they aren't genetic; they are acquired; taught, modeled. The lack of values empowers that primitive child perspective- and turns grown people into adult children that throw tantrums to get their way. It is certainly the people- but those who set the rules, model the behaviors, honor the principles are what makes the difference for followers. When leaders mis-lead, followers get lost too.

 

I'm growing very pessimistic. I think all empires crumble. History teaches us about it. Our decline is inevitable, and so is China's rise. There is no fix. We'll get worse and worse. Gone is American exceptionalism. Now we are incompetent, as shown in the numerous errors committed by both the Trump and the Biden administration in dealing with the pandemic.

 

I will hope you are wrong- at least, I refuse to accept that as a fate. Many times in the past I've posted the beliefs a professor stated on the life of democracies, 200 years ago. I will put that up again at below this.

However, virtually everything we have accomplished was at some time seen as impossible. We can only do unprecedented things when we believe they are possible- those that don't won't really try, and if they make an effort it's token; followed by the declaration they were right at the first obstacle encountered. I believe we are capable of more- we just have to find the right tools, the right way., the right leadership- and that will not be found among the quitters.

A quote credited to Alexander Tytler, a Scottish historian, over 200 years ago.:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

 

Well but your quote supports my pessimistic view. We are definitely now going through the stages of selfishness, apathy, dependence... and we're headed towards the inevitable decline. Like I said, History teaches us that empires never last more than 200 years. Probably now this cycle is accelerated by the more sophisticated state of science.

 

The only thing that will break the cycle is a change in human consciousness. Capitalism and socialism, democracies and dictatorships.... all are doomed to fail because of the human ego, whose survival instinct says "me me me" instead of "us". Capitalism COULD work, if everyone took their profits and used them to uplift society instead of themselves. Sure, there is a little bit of altruism, and a little bit of trickle down gain for some, but overall it will all fall apart because of human greed causing a small number to gobble up everything. The same thing happens in socialism. Resources are supposed to help everybody, but instead they get hoarded for the political elite, while everyone else get barely what they need to survive. With styles of governing, like democracies and dictatorships, the same happens. Political groups and politicians begin voting for things that only benefit them and theirs, and to hell with the rest. In dictatorships, say in popular revolutions, an originally well meaning dictator will invariably become corrupted by the power they wield, and if not them, then their successors surely will be corrupted.

Nope, it is the human consciousness that needs to evolve. That is the only way out of the endless cycle. I think it is happening, but it is a slow and painful process that may not be complete in our lifetimes. I'll keep my fingers crossed though.