White Suburban Women Swinging Toward Republicans

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Bluesguy, Nov 2, 2022.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No I am not mistaken there was unrestricted abortion in this county because of RvW and restrictions had been challenged and revoked under RvW. A majority when asked should there be restrictions say yes and 15 weeks seems the acceptable time frame.

    There is no difference and they are all a human being, a human life and I remind you we are all CREATED equal with that self evidence truth of our inherent right to our life.

    Let's see them put what the pro-abortion side wants on a ballot, that a woman can kill her unborn baby up to the moment of birth merely because she does not want it to live.
     
  2. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    You falsely claimed "unrestricted abortion which is what RvW was."

    Roe v Wade clearly did not sanction unrestricted abortion at any time during a pregnancy. I assume that you know that.

    No, despite your extremist claim, a microscopic, mindless amalgam of cells is not the same as a viable fetus after it has developed a functioning brain, no more than an acorn is an oak tree.

    Your authoritarian statism in which politicians and bureaucrats dictate in such personal, private matters exists in an El Salvador, a Nicaragua, or an Iraq, but not in an advanced democracy where personal liberty is respected.
     
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  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It did not prevent it and was used to deny any restrictions, reversing the decision will NOW allow the citizens to vote on what if any restrictions there should be.


    No despite your extremist pro-abortion claim the human being begins it's life AT CONCEPTION, AT CREATION. And we are CREATED equal with that self evident truth of our inherent right to our life. And human beings are not plant life with and entirely different life cycle but an acorn is merely that stage of the life of a genus Quercus. A baby is not an adult is it they are just different stages of the life of a human being.
     
  4. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Please document your false claim. What physicians willfully violated restrictions under Roe v Wade?

    Advanced nations are capable of distinguishing between a microscopic, mindless amalgam of cells and a person. The instantaneous homunculus theory was abandoned long.

    In Christian tradition. St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas both cite a point after conception, "the quickening," as the moment at which the life in the womb becomes human or ensouled.
     
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  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What do you mean document my claim for decades attempts to restrict abortion have been overturn based on RvW what the hell do you think RvW is?

    You believe abortion law should be based on the Christian religion now?

    ... the human being begins it's life AT CONCEPTION, AT CREATION. And we are CREATED equal with that self evident truth of our inherent right to our life.
     
  6. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    I respect the majority of Americans who have expressed their view of the matter in polls and at the ballot box.

    You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to impose it upon everyone else, not by authoritarian government, not by any other means.
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Do you believe in unrestricted abortion or should there be some restrictions in the law?
     
  8. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with Canada's keeping politicians and bureaucrats from meddling is such a private matter and allowing women to make personal decisions in consultation with their physicians, the libertarian approach, but I am in agreement with most Americans in supporting the provisions of Roe v Wade and its trimester distinctions. (attached)

     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    A simple question begs a simple answer

    Do you believe in unrestricted abortion or should there be some restrictions in the law? And those third trimester "distinctions" were wiped out by RvW rulings that mental health is simple enough for late term abortion.

    "Along with it, another case on abortion will also be affected: Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey. The 5-4 decision upheld Roe in 1992, but paved the way for more restrictions on abortion access because it declared that restrictions were allowed as long as there was not an "undue burden.""

    Well Katie bar the door.
     
  10. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Simple question: Do you believe that women should be able to make decisions concerning their own bodies in consultation with trusted medical and spiritual advisers to the extent that Roe v Wade insured, or do you think that politicians and bureaucrats should be allowed to dictate your position to them all?

    It sounds as if you would force a woman to carry to term even if her health and life were severely jeopardized.

    Please document specific instances of the late term abortions you refer to so that I can answer your question knowledgeably.
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sorry you were asked first

    Do you believe in unrestricted abortion or should there be some restrictions in the law?
     
  12. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    As I had noted, I share most Americans support for the restrictions under Roe v Wade.

    If you don't want to document specific instances of the late term abortions you refer to so that I can answer your question with a greater comprehension of those you object to, don't.

    According to CDC abortion trimester statistics, 93% of abortions occur during the first trimester, at or before 13 weeks of gestation. About 6% of abortions occur between 14 and 20 weeks of pregnancy, and 1% of abortions are performed at 21 weeks or more of gestation.

    Severe fetal abnormality and/or a significant threat to the health and/or life of the woman occasion the 1% that are performed after 21 weeks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What restrictions, there were none after Casey because of the "undue burden" ruling and I didn't ask you about most Americans.

    Do you believe in unrestricted abortion or should there be some restrictions in the law?
     
  14. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    I believe there were restrictions under Roe v Wade, and you have not been able to show otherwise.

    You have not been able to document a single late-term abortion, among the 1% of abortions that were late-term, that were not performed because of serious abnormalities to the fetus and/or danger to the health and/or life of the woman. For the State to deny medical intervention in those tragic cases is unconscionable.
     
  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    "A more recent Guttmacher study focused on abortion after 20 weeks of gestation and similarly concluded that women seeking late-term abortions were not doing so for reasons of fetal anomaly or life endangerment. The study further concluded that late-term abortion seekers were younger and more likely to be unemployed than those seeking earlier abortions.4"
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6457018/
     
  16. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Studnicki is a propagandist for the Charlotte Lozier Institute, an arm of the anti-choice Susan B. Anthony List that pushes alarmist narratives about women who need abortions later in pregnancy, publishes annual reports applauding state-level abortion restrictions, spreads lies about research that relies on fetal tissue, and advocates for deceptive anti-abortion centers. His cherry-picking the Guttmacher study to fit his agenda is obvious.

    Roe v Wade safeguarded abortions “necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother”;

    Do you respect the right of women under Roe v Wade to obtain late abortions when serious fetal abnormalities are discovered and/or the health and/or life of the woman is endangered, or do you support authoritarian intervention by the State that denies women such vital medical care in those tragic cases?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
  17. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Looks like WSJ is not very good at polling. Maybe they are too close to Faux fake news.
     
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  18. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, yeah! Women who are employed get paid maternity leave, at least here in New York state. So, if you want fewer abortions, then pay up! $$$$
     
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  19. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If the option is no abortion or completely unrestricted abortion then I will choose the latter each and every time.

    I believe the vast majority of Americans feel the same and every time it gets put to a vote you will lose.
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have no obligation to pay women not to kill their baby even in the third trimester, they can place in adoption.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which is a false choice right now of course.

    Try again abortion is to be allowed do you support any restrictions on it and if so what?
     
  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Source peer reiviewed

    upload_2022-11-23_18-44-40.png


    Do you believe our entire abortion law should be based on extremely rare and sometimes treatable fetal abnormalities? I believe all efforts should be made to save the baby and if that fails and the baby must die it should be in the most comfortable manner possible and the baby dies it is a tragedy.

    Now as I showed most late term are NOT because of fetal abnormalities so let's deal with those.
     
  23. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I support no restrictions on abortion until the moment of fetal viability. I also believe we should push for medical science to get to a point where an unwanted fetus can be removed and cared for in an artificial environment so that the fetus doesn’t have to be aborted and the mother doesn’t have to be a forced state incubator against her will.
     
  24. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    School issues are a big driver. The democrats should have known grooming children for their sexual pleasure was going to be a hard sell to parents who had children with someone they know.
     
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And after that what restrictions do you support? How do you show the exact moment of "viability" and why is that the measure. Why do you afford the unborn baby more "humanity" the moment after this arbitrary point. I don't know of any test a doctor can do that can tell them at that exact moment even by days.
     

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