Who believes the claim that the intent of the 2nd Amendment was to arm militias

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Turtledude, Sep 21, 2017.

?

Was the 2nd Amendment intended to arm militias and not recognize an individual right

  1. Yes, the second amendment was designed to enable the government to arm itself

    13.9%
  2. Of course not, the bill of rights was not designed to expand the power of government

    52.8%
  3. The purpose of the second amendment was to guarantee a right the founders believed men had

    47.2%
  4. The second amendment recognized a right the founders believed pre-existed government

    69.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't ask you.
     
  2. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    You asked,
    He answered.
    Just not the answer you wanted.
     
  3. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    Definition of non sequitur
    1:an inference (see inference 2) that does not follow from the premises (see 1premise 1); specifically :a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative (see 1affirmative 3) proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent (see 1consequent 1)
     
  4. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    You
    simply do not want to answer.
     
  5. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    Answer what? "Either you believe in the Right to keep and bear Arms or you do not, Which is it ?"

    Sure, I'll answer that. For most of us, yes, we should have the right to keep and bear arms. For you? No, no rights for you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  6. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    More off the wall humor.
    Technically LE personell have no Rights anyway.
    We are allowed Arms.
     
  7. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    Well there you go.
     
  8. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because you are hostile towards mine.
     
  9. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You should be able to tell by my accent. But I'd be right proud to be from any of the three you mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  10. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    I think I detected a Texas accent?
     
  11. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    I only read hostile, actually I'm easy in real life.
     
  12. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm Arizonan with a Texas influence and a Hoosier twang.
     
  13. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    Fail. Cherry picked quotes don't change the wording of the Second Amendment.
     
  14. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Nor to the opinions of those posing as so-called "legal scholars" change the Heller, McDonald, and Caetano rulings, or what they ultimately do. Three times in a row now, the united state supreme court has ruled that the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with the militia. There may very well be a fourth ruling coming shortly, a federal appeals court for the district of columbia ruled yesterday that the district can no longer legally require applicants to demonstrate a good reason for why they should be issued a concealed carry permit. This means the district is required to now issue a permit to anyone and everyone that can legally own a firearm.
     
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  15. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to post any quotes from the Founders that support a militia-only Second Amendment.
     
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  16. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    What makes your interpretation better than another? As written the 2A is not concise thus the numerous interpretations.
     
  17. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

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    What makes your interpretation on how concise the 2A better than another. The 2A couldn't be more short and to the point.
    The numerous interpretations that you speak of are from people that don't like the obvious meaning of the 2A.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  18. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    No, the failure is yours.

    These aren't "cherry-picked quotes". They are clear statements of the intent of the Founders, and prove, definitively, that the right to bear arms was intended FROM THE BEGINNING to be a right of the people.

    Your attempts to reinterpret and twist the words of the Second Amendment, and dismiss the words of the Founders, show how intellectually bankrupt your position is.

    Show me ONE comment from the Founders that would support your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. Short answer: YOU CAN'T. What was that word you used? Oh, right....

    FAIL.
     
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  19. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    well given every document from that period supports mine as does the concepts of natural law that the founders believed in, pretty well means i am right
     
  20. upside222

    upside222 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In other words you don't want to answer because it would undercut your own argument!

    ROFL!!

    Pathetic!
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Second Amendment Supporters Cheer as DC Circus Lets Concealed-Carry Ruling Stand
     
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  22. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    No, sorry, doesn't follow. Of course you can try again and see if you can follow?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  23. upside222

    upside222 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The second amendment *is* concise and is written in proper grammar. The FF's *were* well educated in the English language and its grammar rules.

    The leading phrase of the 2nd Amendment (it's not even a clause since it has no noun/verb combination) is what is known as a present participle. A present participle functions as an adjective, not as a restriction. In the sentence "The blue dog barked" the adjective "blue" does not restrict barking to only blue dogs. The present participle phrase is no different. It is an adjective phrase explaining *why* the FF's included the 2nd Amendment but it does not restrict the main clause in any way. The FF's included the protection of the 2nd Amendment in order to insure the ability of local militias to form and operate as a protective force. But the reason for including the 2nd Amendment does not restrict the right in any manner to *only* that function.

    Does NO ONE on the left today know how to diagram a sentence any more? Do they not know any basic grammar?
     
  24. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Really? You think we figured out that murder is unacceptable by a process of trial and error?

    Really?

    It doesn't.

    Obviously nonsense, given that laws against murder favor almost all religions over those which sanction human sacrifice.

    Because...?

    So either you've never read the DoI or you haven't understood it.

    If you think the American Revolution would have stood the chance of a snowflake in Hell had the Founders trusted in the Providence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, your thinking needs serious rethinking.
     
  25. upside222

    upside222 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It *does* follow. You said you would fight in order have your rights. What if you were unable to fight for your rights? Would you still have them?

    Do those that are unable to fight for their rights have no rights?

    Simple question. A simple answer would suffice.

    My guess is that you won't.
     

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