Who on the left or Anti Trumpets here will denounce Antifa or all violence?

Who on the left/Anti Trumpets will denounce Antifa and say they do not like the actions and violence of this group? Anyone want to do it?

Do you guys support or dislike Antifa? If you support them then what is your reasoning for supporting a violent group while denouncing another such as the KKK? Both groups are radical, violent and dress up. If you are against ALL violence than why can't you left/Anti Trumpets denounce Antifa?

Don't forget Antifa and the KKK both were violent at that rally. You can't condemn one while ignoring or giving a free pass to the other.

Denounce Antifa and ALL violence and not just the KKK or be called fake liars.

 

From what I know their roots are somewhat similar to anarchist groups in the US and Europe. I don't agree with anarchist ideas, even if I'm ok with them expressing a wish for a society without rules. Likewise I'm ok with them denouncing facist groups. However, I'm not ok with tactics involving destruction of personal and public property, which I do think they have engaged in. This is absolutely wrong. Some of them may have injured people with opposing views without provocation, but I haven't seen direct evidence that this is the case and not self-defence. If they have, this is clearly wrong.

However, the KKK and neo-Nazi's are a different kettle of fish. Even regardless of their tactics, which have now resulted in a death, I have a serious problem with their views. I don't just disagree with them, I find them morally reprehensible. WWII saw history's worst atrocities, countless deaths and untold misery inflicted upon millions in the name of this same hateful ideology. It had to be stopped with force as Germany's power was too great for it to simply be contained. To me this is not just some "opposing view" that should be tolerated. It is wrong, hateful and evil, end of discussion.

We're not at that stage yet, unlike what some may claim. I think Trump is simply too incompetent for a Nazi-like takeover of the country. And I certainly don't think he's any kind of true believer. As far as I can tell he has no ideology or principles other than whatever he thinks is useful for him at the time. The KKK and neo-nazi's are his useful idiots. However if neo-Nazi's did at some point manage to take over the government and start persecuting people for the colour of their skin, violence would be justified if it was the only way to stop them.

So yeah, the proper way to oppose Trump or the extreme-right is still through the press, ballot box and through peaceful protest.

But I don't think you're really looking for a nuanced answer. I'm pretty sure you have your opinion and are not really open to being swayed, but I hope I'm wrong.

Violence as a tactic is wrong, but I don't accept for a second that "both sides" are somehow equally bad. One is clearly a lot worse.

 

Why is that? Their ideology?

 

One is allowed free speech, the other not so much.

 

Yep.

 

Already denounced violence by the extreme left and extreme right but if you want it again then here it is;

All violence is wrong because it solves nothing and just causes unnecessary pain and suffering.

That applies across the entire spectrum and there is no justification for it IMO.

FTR I also oppose parents using corporal punishment against their children and violence against animals.

If you have a problem use your BRAIN to sort it out, not your fists and/or weapons.

 

I do not know enough about the KKK or Antifa to really comment on them but I do know a bit about fascists and Nazi's.

Fascism is not inherently racist or supremacist, it is intensely nationalistic and at many times leads to supremacist ideas.

Nazisim is something different, it is built on the idea of sub humans, Slavs, Jews and gypsies for a start. It also advocates the elimination of these groups just because of their racial heritage. So if someone wears a Nazi logo or carries a Nazi flag they are basically calling for the death of certain racial groups. I am all for free speech but most agree that it should not include a call for violence against another person. Nazism by its ideology is calling for just that.

 

So, it's ideology then. Fine.

Would you agree that antifa are more hypocritical in their activities, & are therefore fascists, & given that, they are a false movement, based not on anti fascism, but anarchy?

 

The bizarre aspect about Antifa is that the reason for their existence would evaporate if militant fascism, AKA white supremacists and the extremist alt right, were to recede back into the fringes where they belong.

Fascism is an ideology that someone can embrace but if there is no one pushing that ideology then there is no reason for there to be anti fascists.

 

Fascists suppress free speech.

The antifa suppress free speech.

The antifa are fascists then right?

 

I really do not know what Antifa are, not dodging the question but from outside the US it really is difficult to get an unbiased idea. I do not think they are an antifascist organisation since they clearly do not understand what fascism is. I think they certainly have some elements of anarchists in the group, but then I do not object to anarchists or fascists having the right to express their views. I object to violence, apart from in self defence. So yes from what I have seen they are not an anti fascist movement.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

Antifa suppress free speech through violence.

Fascists suppress free speech through violence.

Antifa then are fascists right?

 

Interesting video on free speech from a fascist point of view, from one of the most articulate of fascists, Oswald Mosley.

 

Answer the question Plz. I'll watch the video.

 

No, fascism is a political ideology. The word fascist is being thrown around incorrectly.

 

Did you read the wiki link? It's the American antifa movement.

I agree, it's nothing at all like the original from the 20's/30's

 

Calling the Antifa thugs fascists is like calling Buddhism a religion.

You're correct in doing so, but it can annoy Buddhists no end...

 

You are focusing on the primary problem with using violence. It shuts down all discourse and that is why I am opposed to it on all sides.

However your attempt to paint Antifa as "fascist" based upon a single criteria fails. There are 14 signs of fascism and unless you can demonstrate that Antifa embraces a clear majority of them that label is erroneous.

You could just as easily allege that a teacher demanding silence in the classroom is being a "fascist" under the fallacious logic that you are using above. Being opposed to freedom of expression occurs in religions that consider it a sin to blaspheme or to call yourself the son of god. Does that make the religion fascism because of that single criterion?

 

I'm focusing NOT on the violence, but the suppression of free speech. Pretty clear.

Unless you mean like "By any means necessary"

What's your stand on the Black Panthers.... New or old?

 

Fascism is MORE than a single aspect!

In order to label Antifa as 'fascist" you will need to prove that it meets the other criteria of fascism.

 

So, like my edit.

You mean like "By any means necessary"?

What's your stand on the black panthers... New or old?

 

Suppressing free speech, ... Check.

Using violence to advance the agenda, .... Check.

How many more do I need?

 

I don't have to explain Antifa to fight against the KKK. I don't have to explain the actions of one group, to refuse to accept the actions of another.

 

How many of these criteria does Antifa meet?

http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm

 

Antifa's Brownshirt and anti-free speech tactics are.