"Who's gonna pay for Medicare for all?" is either stupid or disingenuous

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 3link, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Bet your asteroid I do. They have increased like they ALWAYS HAVE, but the rate of increase is less. The general overprice of healthcare is due to two things. Requiring every for profit company to insure people with preexisting conditions and not being above to drop them when their costs over run THEIR PROFIT MARGINS.

    It’s not rocket science.

    Do you favor eliminating these 2 requirements and allowing for profits to do what they did before the ACA ?

    Answer that question. The biggest reason for middle class, well to do families to go through bankruptcies and loose their home, was for no or inadequate health insurance. The biggest reason for lower wages, is employer based health insurance where employers must contribute to their healthcare and not toward wages.

    Now, you’ll give a simple reason, straight from Hannity, and it will be wrong....but go for it.

    But answer the question first

    DO YOU FAVOR ELIMINATING INSURANCE FOR PREEXISTING CONDITIONS AND EXPENSIVE PAYOUTS.
    DO YOU WANT INSURANCE COMPANIES TO BE ABLE TO DROP PEOPLE AT WILL WHEN THEY CANT TURN A PROFIT OFF THEM ?

    Because really, only Medicare and the VA have never done it and they are non profit GOVERNMENT programs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  2. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    When "defense" is accepted as a necessary collective effort, efforts to defend against disease and suffering seem only logical and reasonable.
    As for costs, just evaluate how much total was spent last year on healthcare and then find the means to take care of that, all of us together. If, together, we can spend so much on arms and war, there has to be a way to pay for wellness.
     
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  3. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Typing Slowly
    for them that don't read So Good
    like dyslexic, @Moi621

    YOU EVER HEAR OF
    Hospital hobos?
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the record of Medicare is impressive.

    We need to move forward, not back to pre-Obamacare.

    Every other first world country pays less per citizen for healthcare than we do.

    And, the way they do it is through some form of national coverage.

    They start with the concept that citizens matter!!
     
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  5. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    That’s, don’t read so “well.”
     
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  6. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Yup. They are called republicans. They want everything for free. They love cutting taxes and still demanding government services.
     
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  7. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    It’s be another made up term y the right to clandestine the sick working poor. Maybe you didn’t know. No one
    yup. Medicare is one of the most popular programs among older republicans who vote for people who try to cut it and its benefits. Go figure.
     
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  8. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    To repeat, healthcare is already being paid for. The total cost for people being treated is being paid every day. The only question is, will we continue to pay more for less? When we could have many more people covered for their well being and pay less, how is it that we allow ourselves to be bilked?
     
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  9. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. For some reason, the so called conservative right is fine with pissing money away when it comes to our tax money.
     
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  10. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Not really........

    Compared to other countries, Uncle Sam is loosing approx. $200 billion in annual revenues due to the following tax expenditure/break/subsidy;

    What are the largest tax expenditures?


    NUMBER 1. The largest tax expenditure (an estimated $190.3 billion in fiscal year 2021 is the exclusion of employers’ contributions for employees’ medical insurance premiums and medical care. Under this provision of the tax code, contributions are excluded from an employee’s gross income, while an employer may deduct the cost as a business expense. OMB estimates this provision will cost $227.9 billion in 2021.

    https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-largest-tax-expenditures

    -------------------

    THUS, like most countries, if health care expenditures were to be financed by the Treasury's General Account/mainly financed by income tax receipts, said $200 billion tax break/subsidy would be eliminated.

    In addition, a income tax based health care system would also eliminate both employer's/employee's 1.45% Contributions, which equates to approx. annual $300 billion combined, and for employees, FICA contributions aren't tax deductible.

    NOTE; I will not support a FICA/Premiums financed ''Medicare for All''.
     
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  11. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Yup, you just validated tax funding Medicare for all.......
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
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  12. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Well, I certainly affirmed that Uncle Sam has been subsidizing the PRIVATE health care Industry due to the fact, if he were to eliminate said employee's tax break/subsidy, there would be a whole lot of CRYING.
     
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  13. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    We are bilked because the Military Industrial Complex consumes tax revenue and has for decades, just as Ike warned about in 1961.

    That complex consumes tax dollars that could be spent on public health. Ike was right.
     
  14. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    All these people wanting to double the responsibilities of programs they already claim are broke are headed for a shock when the results of Biden spending hit. Inflation hits hardest on those whose income is fixed like SS or medicare. Pain is coming to America disguised as unicorns.
     
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  15. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Well, per beneficiary, VA Health is a very expensive Single-Payer, mainly due to costly medical/mental conditions, and ongoing care.

    Medicare is also a very expensive government-sponsored health care, due to the fact that its beneficiaries are high risk.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  16. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    We can't afford inflation.......

    Fact; Notes, and T-bill interest rates tend to move closer to the interest rate set by the Fed

    Fact; The Fed's rate is currently at 0.25.......thus, 1/4 of 1 percent

    Fact; The Public Debt is currently at $22 trillion, and its average interest rate; 1.5%. Thus, $22T X 1.5% equates to an annual interest payment of $330 billion.

    AND 22 X 2% (just a 1/2% increase) = $440B, thus, an extra mandatory expenditure of $110 billion.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  17. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    We can't afford it but it's already here.
     
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    And I would same about the same thing about your post. Everything costs at least double when done by government. I would say having to pay for the entire amount of the private health system would be a conservative estimate. Believing what government tells you is a very naive thing to do.
     
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  19. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    You nimbly shifted from "who" to "why". The real question is who. In today's private market the employer and the employee pay for his insurance. With Medicare for all I pay for his insurance.
     
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  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    In part, VA is a cost of DoD. Today, DoD accounts for only a portion of what we call defense, with numerous major expenditures being accounted for under other departments.

    This is one of the accounting pranks that needs to get fixed, as Americans today have NO IDEA what we are spending on defense. Most think it is just DoD!!
     
  21. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You got my attention. Take the covid vaccines which were developed mostly with public funding. The private developers want to profit on an unreasonable scale both locally and abroad now. Nothing wrong with funding R and D with tax payers money ; am all for it. But to then make the profits so high it limits the product access to the very funders of the product, makes it immoral. Govt. totally depends upon private industry for nearly everything, but private industry also depends upon govt. spending for solvency much of the time.
     
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  22. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Public care through the VA has always been a problem. The health and safety of people we ask to put their life on the line has always been a big part of the military expense.....it’s what we owe to those who serve. No easy answers other then....Stay out of wars we can’t win.
     
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  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    All true.

    However, I do believe we need a proper accounting for what we spend on "defense".

    Plus, VA has the problem that it is a service for a captive audience funded by a general public that doesn't use the service. I really don't believe that's ever going to be a satisfactory solution.

    There should be a way to fold VA into the rest of our healthcare.
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if no one has to pay for health insurance, they save that money

    but yes, they have to pay more in taxes... but everyone has health insurance and it will cost less for 90% of people, the top 10% will have to pay more in taxes
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Eisenhower was wrong. And his military background implies no level of expertise on the subject.
     

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