Why Are You Against Same Sex Marriage?

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by learis, Oct 13, 2015.

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Why Are You Against SSM

  1. Your Religion Says It's Wrong

    2 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. Same Sex Couples Are Incapable of Genuinely Loving Each Other

    1 vote(s)
    8.3%
  3. Allowing SSM Will Lead to Allowing Beastiality, Polygamy, Incest, etc.

    1 vote(s)
    8.3%
  4. Other

    8 vote(s)
    66.7%
  1. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    The reason why we don't define same-sex marriages by word it's because there's no need to.

    I don't see a rational need to. I'm willing to hear your rational that's actually why I'm in here talking to you. But an appeal to purity is a logical fallacy. And rational that's not logical isn't well thought out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  2. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Precisely. And originally, they just wanted the tax benefits that married couples get. Then, "civil unions" wasn't good enough, and they had to hijack the word 'marriage' and confuse children and brainwash them into this nonsense. There really is power to a word and its definition, and this is where defenders of conservative viewpoints have failed. They have largely given up definitions of words to liberals.
     
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  3. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Just to put a fine point on it, I doubt anyone ever wanted to qualify a "tax benefit". Simply put, marriage isn't a break, tax wise. It costs more. The reason marriage was a need was to make sure that the law granted privileges like being able to make decisions like married folk do. Decisions about health care, or parenting, or inheritance, government benefits like SS, etc. Those aren't tax benefits. Marriage was a requirement because states defined it that way legally. Once adopted by the SCOTUS, it is now the law of the land. Thankfully for those who were being discriminated against.

    For me, I never thought anything else beyond civil union was required. I was wrong. Marriage has opened up legal doors that civil union could not.

    Marriage, for me, isn't a religious term, although I respect that religious folk have adopted the term for their own purposes. For some, it seems that the real offense for those who find it is that their opinions weren't respected here. I get it. No one likes to have their sensitivities ignored. But, I find that some discomfort might be good for them, in the long run.
     
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  4. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    ?????????
     
  5. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    Why should civil unions be good enough?
    no they're just words meanings change over time.

    Let's take for instance marriage. At one time it meant a covenant till death, and to commit adultery was a criminal act. And also meant that before you were married you were a virgin.

    Now premarital sex far more common than uncommon, people get divorced and then we have swingers.

    This started back in the 60s maybe even earlier. You can't blame gay people for the degradation of marriage it seems straight people have been doing it for over half a century.
     
  6. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    So when you say your vows, did it not include the words "till death do you part?"

    And if not how is that real marriage?
     
  7. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    In all honesty I think it's more about societal approval. That's why people want to call it civil union vs marriage.

    They not only don't see it as equal, they don't want it to be legally considered equal.

    I'm willing to hear someone rationalize that position.
     
  8. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Here is a good analysis.

    To the state, marriage is definitely not religious.
     
  9. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is. They did not get married. No homosexual couple has gotten married. They cannot marry, by definition.

    Marriage is not a legal status. It is the sacred union between a man and a woman in which two separate physical bodies become one spiritual body. This is the only type of union which can procreate.

    Like I said, those kids have already been taken away from their parents.

    Irrelevant.

    No they don't, as I have explained already.

    You are redefining the word 'marriage'. I never said I did. Marriage has been defined that way long before I ever existed.
     
  10. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Frankly I do not remember. I was married to wife #1 in my church and my church teaches when you die, that is not your end.

    Wife two was a Jehovah Witness who believed if GOD wanted, he could resurrect you. But once dead, nothing unless you were raised. That was a civil wedding at Lake Tahoe and frankly the end simply escaped my memory.
     
  11. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    Yes they can and they have.

    It is a legal status. Legally a person you are married to is your husband or your wife.

    Not necessarily.

    I wouldn't consider an appeal to nature irrelevant it's just a logical fallacy.

    your explanation does it change anything, seems to be that you don't understand.

    I don't believe in sacred meanings of words. There is no authority on what words mean they can be redefined. Happens all the time.
     
  12. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    Church Christian what's your church Christian? If so marriage is a lifetime covenant that you cannot break.
    You married to Jehovah's witness? Are you a Jehovah's witness?
     
  13. tealwings

    tealwings Well-Known Member

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    My main issue with gay marriage is its absolutely not the same thing as traditional marriage.
    Yes, you can love and be with who you choose, yes everyone should be able to get the same benefits under the law... This is where the similarities should end. Some try to lump it together with interracial marriage claiming people were against that also. sorry, COMPLETELY different.
    I honestly have more of a problem with those who aren't even gay, yet go running their mouths championing it and just stirring the pot.
     
  14. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Point taken about the "tax benefits" bit. I will amend my language from saying "tax benefits" to saying "legal benefits".

    Concerning the SCOTUS bit, technically SCOTUS was acting unconstitutionally, as was the rest of the federal government. The federal government has no power to legislate about marriage.

    Also, is all discrimination bad?? Discrimination, at face value, is simply noting a difference between two things. Here, it is noting that homosexual relationships are different than heterosexual relationships. They are not identical. I'm fine with homosexuals receiving the same legal benefits as heterosexuals, but I am NOT okay with redefining what a marriage is. That word only applies to heterosexuals. What homosexuals have is a civil union, not a marriage.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  15. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Because it allows for the same legal benefits as married couples, but it doesn't bastardize what a marriage is. It keeps the two differences separated instead of pretending like one union is completely identical to the other union.

    No, a computer doesn't, over time, become a pencil. A computer remains a computer and a pencil remains a pencil.

    It still means that, it still is a criminal act, and it never meant that one was a virgin.

    That's not a change in the definition of marriage. That is a change in moral standards.

    I claimed that gays redefined marriage. Yes, straight people have degraded marriage since the beginning of time, as have gay people. However, we are not discussing our sins nor the various shifts of morality; we are discussing the definition of what a marriage is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  16. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    No they haven't. They still can't, and never will be able to.

    No it is not.

    Yes, necessarily. If a child doesn't have any access to their biological father or mother, then their father/mother has been taken away from them, by definition. You seem to enjoy redefining words, don't you??

    All these words have changed definitions already... I can't comprehend what you have tried to express to me...
     
  17. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    why is it important to keep them separated?

    now it says computer remains the computer despite what we call it. The word is just a label.

    no it doesn't still mean that. You can get a divorce that's breaking the covenant before death. And it's not a crime to commit adultery.

    yes it is a change in the definition of marriage. Because people who are swingers can still be married.

    Definitions of words change.
     
  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    you can insist on this but it isn't true.

    it is regardless of what you say.

    you're moving the goalposts first of the child was taken away from the parents not the parents being taken away from the child.

    So which is it?

    Invest in a dictionary that will show you common usage
     
  19. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Since marriage is a legal contract, they are THE final authority on marriage. You can pretend differently but that doesn’t change the reality.
     
  20. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    The idea behind same-sex marriage is that its treated equally under the law. That's officially anyway.
     
  21. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'll give you one simple rationale, but I believe there are others. A husband and wife (male and female) co-mingle their blood (dna) and produce offspring. They share similar traits with their children. It is a connection void in same sex unions. That gives marriage a special meaning that cannot be replicated in same sex unions. Language is an important tool. English, in particular has become simplified over the centuries. Family is the bedrock of a society. I don't feel we should "cheat" it's description.
     
  22. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is to the point!
     
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  23. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    only if they procreate. if you have a sterile man with a woman there is no possibility of them ever procreating so are you against a sterile person getting married?
    so nothing less than ideal should be acceptable?
    With all due respect, you considering certain families illegitimate because of the way they formed is you cheating the description from my perspective.
     
  24. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Donor

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    In absolutely no way do I consider certain families "illegitimate". We are talking about the "ideal" and what marriage signifies. We should strive for the ideal but sometimes circumstances shake things up a bit. We look on those circumstances with compassion. Same sex unions can legally adopt children, it is a family of sorts....but it is not marriage.
     
  25. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    okay I apologize for insinuating otherwise.

    I agree the ideal is biological mother and biological father staying married and raising their child. But I don't think there's any reason to look down on people who adopt their stepchildren. It may not be ideal but it can't be it never will be.

    Further gay people can't participate in the ideal, so I think it's wrong to deny them any opportunity to get as close to it as they can with their limitations.

    yes we should but in doing so it shouldn't mean that if the ideal is not possible because you're gay or your spouse died or can't hold up their end of the responsibilities that you can't try and get as close to that ideal as possible with the limitations you have.

    yeah I've heard this declaration multiple times but you're not rationalizing why it's not a marriage.

    I understand why it's not ideal but no marriage is ideal we don't live in that kind of world.
     

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