Why can't liberals see that holding back the wall funding is hurting more than helping?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Daggdag, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    14,063
    Likes Received:
    1,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    First of, I do not support building the wall. It's a waste of money that won't have any real effect on illegal immigration.

    However, Trump and the Republicans are children who won't stop whining and bitching until you shove their pacifiers in their mouths. These are rich *******s who don't care if poor people starve. They still get paid either way.

    The fact is that it would be far more effective to give them what they want, but add a few catches......

    1; Fund the wall, but place restrictions on what can be cut in order to do so. No cuts to education, no cuts to food stamps, WIC, etc No cuts from agencies battling things like human trafficking.....At least 50% of the funding must come from money currently being paid as corporate subsidies....etc....We can make sure that the funding comes from where it will be least missed.

    2; Let Trump hog all the glory he wants. Let him publically take credit for everything....This means that HE and no one else takes the blame WHEN the wall fails to have the effect that he claims it will. When illegal immigration numbers don't fall, we push him to explain why, and keep hitting him to explain why the wall isn't working.

    We give them exactly what they ask for and then let them burn.
     
  2. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    113
    President Trump has repeatedly shown that he will enthusiastically shift the blame.

    Illegal immigration is reducing in any case - so he will claim success.

    President Trump, both in his Presidency and in decades of business dealings, has repeatedly shown that he considers negotiating and operating in bad faith to be a legitimate way of doing business. Any restrictions on wall funding will be forgotten immediately.
     
  3. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    24,920
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It might be reducing now - or not, as the case may be, but it might start increasing again in the foreseeable future; so doing nothing isn't an option?
     
  4. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think that anyone is calling for doing nothing.

    President Trump wants, well it's difficult to say what he wants because it seems to change all the time, but it mostly seems to be a physical barrier running the entire length of the border with his name attached to it built, manned and maintained at considerable expense.

    Other people say that a more effective way to tackle illegal immigration is a multi-faceted approach to target specific areas where border infrastructure needs to be installed or upgraded (hence the $1.3bn to improve and maintain existing stretches of physical barrier), improve monitoring and detection along the border and to tackle the employment of illegal immigrants by making it more expensive for employers to be caught employing them.
     
    cerberus likes this.
  5. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    12,923
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Right, cause the left has never held out on giving in to an argument and closed the government when they didn't get their way? Its amazing how people can so easily forget Obama closing the government for Obamacare funding, and going so far to close down OUTDOOR parks just for spite.
     
    AmericanNationalist and Gatewood like this.
  6. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    3,376
    Likes Received:
    1,616
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have walls on my house. They're not perfect, but they keep burglars, murderers, and uninvited criminals with infectious diseases outside until the police get here.

    I have windows that lock for the same purpose and allow me to look outside without jeopardizing my safety.

    I have wireless electronics that allow me to view the inside of my house when I am gone, and alerts me to breaches.

    It only makes sense to secure the border with a barrier plus technology as all the actors that oppose it now agreed in the past.

    Last time I looked, Trump donated his Presidential salary each quarter and is calling for Congress to work uncompensated until the government opens up.

    So far, while Trump remained in the job, Democrats chartered a plane, flew to Puerto Rico and vacationed in lavish accommodations so their donors and lobbyists had the opportunity to drown out the voters who were duped into electing them.


    A waste of money is sending $10.6B in aid to Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador and Southern Mexico and extend tax free status to Socialists who want Central Americans to meddle in our elections.

    Note: I don't feel the need to misrepresent my leanings in some deceptive avatar. I'm honest that way.
     
    Gatewood and ArchStanton like this.
  7. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    24,920
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ah I'm with you now; right from the outset I said it wasn't practicable, not least because tunneling underneath it would be too easy. But my alternative was to let it be known in all SA countries that those caught will be returned whence they came with extreme prejudice; none of this time-consuming and expenditure on medical facilities and temporary playschools for the kids infrastructures and the requisite staffing of same, and all the pleadings and the hearings. In other words, prevent the build-up of the problem by keeping it at a distance. None of them will make such a journey in the knowledge they'll immediately be turned around and sent away.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  8. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    12,923
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The one eye GOP military vet congressman signed away his paycheck till the wall is funded.
     
    Gatewood likes this.
  9. Borat

    Borat Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    21,164
    Likes Received:
    6,083
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This has to be a rhetorical question, right? You of all people do know that this is driven by overwhelming, all-encompassing, uncontrollable, often self-destructive Trump hate, don't you?

    Yes, the dems can get path to citizenship for the entire population of DACA and more in exchange for what amounts to a rounding error (1/10th of 1%) in the federal budget. See my first statement why they won't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    7,422
    Likes Received:
    1,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why can't liberals see that holding back the wall funding is hurting more than helping?

    Because their desire for future votes outstrips getting Trump off their back.


     
    nra37922 likes this.
  11. Crownline

    Crownline Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2016
    Messages:
    4,293
    Likes Received:
    3,457
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Security on anything is never done with a single layer of protection because they can usually be breached. If that was the case, locking your car would be enough, but no, we also have car alarms, steering wheel clubs, locating devices, etc. each layer defeating a percentage of the threat. The wall is only the first layer, foot, and vehicle patrols, aircraft surveillance, check points and electronic monitoring will be supplemental layers. The wall isn’t a once and done process but will greatly reduce traffic freeing up resources to focus on other places such as ports of entry etc. if someone goes over, under, or around the wall, that doesn’t mean it failed, but it did detour them, and that is the purpose of it.
     
  12. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    82,279
    Likes Received:
    16,854
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, the Border Patrol doesn't agree with you and the democrats are pushing to eliminate PayGo so they don't have to justify their spending.
     
  13. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    10,737
    Likes Received:
    7,532
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Perhaps the best way to demonstrate to the US public that a vast swath of the federal government isn't necessary is to keep it shut down so that folks actually then understand that they will be just fine without those services.
     
    Gatewood, Polydectes and ArchStanton like this.
  14. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    14,063
    Likes Received:
    1,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It was Republicans who shut down the government, not Obama. It was led by Ted Cruz. They refused to pass a budget unless Obamacare was repealed.
     
  15. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    16,446
    Likes Received:
    3,546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I disagree. If you cave in to a child's temper tantrums, they will only get worse.
    But I imagine that the terrorists are now trying to exploit the TSA screening disaster that is happening at all big airports, and trump's shutdown may end up causing another large terrorist attack in the US since 9/11.
    The great orange hope's legacy of criminality, corruption and bankruptcy is now playing out on the national stage.
     
  16. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,672
    Likes Received:
    801
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I was thinking he would cut foreign aid to pay for the wall.
     
  17. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,672
    Likes Received:
    801
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are right it wasn't Obama but that's because the President ultimately doesn't have the power to shut down the government. Any budget with enough bipartisan support could easily bypass the presidents veto power.
     
    ArchStanton likes this.
  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    19,154
    Likes Received:
    4,262
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, let's spend 35-50 billion (almost certainly more) to build a very ineffective solution to a problem that we do not have now in case we get it in the future. Meanwhile our bridges are collapsing and third world "shitholes" have better roads.
     
    randlepatrickmcmurphy likes this.
  19. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    14,063
    Likes Received:
    1,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The actualy cost is much higher. About $75 billion for construction, and then an additional $250-$300 million for annual maintainence. And this isn't even taking into account the cost of hiring enough border patrol agents to full man the wall.
     
  20. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    19,154
    Likes Received:
    4,262
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Something like your 2nd para was passed by both Houses and sent to Trump who had said would sign it. He changed his mind because Fox & Friends said he was "caving" Now his "deal" is "my way or highway" and who says he won't ask for more if he gets that?
     
    randlepatrickmcmurphy and Renee like this.
  21. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    19,154
    Likes Received:
    4,262
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not to mention the costs of replacing several miles that will be blown up by terrorists and even pranksters the first and all subsequent years
     
  22. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    24,920
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree - I've said a few times recently, and since it was first proposed, that a wall isn't a viable solution. But the problem still has to be dealt with, and it's best done by preventing the caravans leaving in the first place, and that can best be done by making it clear to the migrants before they set out that they won't be admitted upon arrival. But up to now it hasn't been done - why not?
     
  23. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To be fair, we have no idea as to the construction, operation and maintenance costs because President Trump has no clear idea of:
    • Whether it will be a big beautiful wall, a see-through fence or a combination of the two
    • How much of the US/Mexico border it will run along
    • How much it will cost to appropriate all the land (including associated any legal costs)
    • Who is going to build it, and how much they intend to charge
    Using the figures you suggest, 0.3% of the construction cost for annual maintenance certainly very low - I'd have thought it would low-digits percentage at the least.
     
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    29,870
    Likes Received:
    4,147
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Or it does work and Dems look even more foolish for doubting the obvious. As to your original question. It isn't about the wall. It is about DJ Trump and raw naked Dem hatred. If Trump wanted to fund free cancer inoculations for all and had a proven effective vaccine, the Dems wouldn't fund it. they'd rather see people die than fund any project Trump came up with no matter how wonderful and noble it was.
     
  25. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    12,923
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Its funny that it always seems to go to blaming the GOP for every shutdown. The thing is, BOTH sides are responsible, they both want something and neither is willing to compromise so then nothing gets passes. Obama wasn't going to sign anything that didn't fund Obamacare.
     

Share This Page