Why can't the market deliver healthcare at a low cost?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by ProgressivePower, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    As soon as he tells me about his cut and paste
     
  2. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Its akin to schoolyard prattle. Try grown up comment.
     
  3. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    I scaled it using the silver plan as a guide.

    upload_2019-6-16_16-38-7.png

    This is where I got the silver pricing.
    https://www.kff.org/interactive/sub...0][age]=64&adults[0][tobacco]=0&child-count=0

    I scaled up the Medicare cost based on the average yearly increase in Medicare since 2011 shown on the chart.
     
  4. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Some are prejudiced against government because of a knee-jerk ideological predisposition, and so wish to perpetuate the profiteers' status quo cash cow. They are impervious to the empirical data that confirms what is the demonstrably superior paradigm.

    If Medicare, with its lower overhead, were extended to other than the most costly age demographic, I would hope that it be done incrementally, with the option of private insurance available to all.

    In any event, what now costs twice as much per capita in the US as in advanced nations will continue to rise unless serious reform is undertaken. Progress will be fiercely opposed by the special interests that make the US, uniquely, so costly..
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  5. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Try being able to talk about the **** one posts
     
  6. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    We know you haven’t read it.
     
  7. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Dont you worry about me. I do just fine for myself. I am concerned about those who are far less fortunate than myself though.
     
  8. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    I don't think it's knee jerk to be aware of the fact that our government is a top heavy inefficient bloated bureaucracy that can not compete with private industry on a level playing field. The thought of government run healthcare is not comforting to me. One need only look at how they mishandled the VA in recent years to confirm this.

    "The secret wait list kept out of view, for example, that patients had to wait an average of 115 days to be seen by a primary care provider. Those long wait times may have had dire consequences: CNN reported that as many as 40 veterans died while on wait lists at the Phoenix hospital, and an official investigation found the wait time contributed to deaths.

    VA officials could have, of course, reported those long wait times to the federal government, but that could have meant losing out on pay bonuses hospitals receive for keeping wait times short. What's scandalous about the behavior at the Phoenix VA hospital is that instead of making the long wait times public in hopes of fixing the problem, administrators tried to make it look like the issues didn't exist at all.

    The scandal at the Phoenix hospital also led to greater scrutiny of other VA-run facilities and whether they also have unacceptable wait times for patients. And it put a spotlight on the care the VA provides, which has alternately been praised as an exemplar of modern health-care systems and derided as failing America's veterans.

    But above all, the scandal put a national spotlight on some of the financial incentives the VA used to encourage quicker and better care — and how those incentives actually drove some VA employees to cheat the system so they could continue getting pay bonuses even as they didn't deliver adequate services to patients."

    https://www.vox.com/2014/9/26/18080592/va-scandal-explained
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  9. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Your knee-jerk anti-government bias demands that you ignore the reality that Medicare covers 60,000,000 Americans, the highest risk demographic, and

    Americans With Government Health Plans Most Satisfied
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/186527/americans-government-health-plans-satisfied.aspx

    https://www.bettermedicarealliance....s/seniors-highly-satisfied-medicare-advantage

    ... and that all the superior, far less expensive healthcare systems of advanced nations are run by governments.

    Is public vigilance required for representative government to perform as it should? Of course.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  10. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Apparantly you haven't, as you haven't been able to discuss any of the pertinent aspects of the study. That's OK, most fourth graders can't either
     
  11. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, go do your thing, help them. I’ll do mine...by not being one.
     
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  12. bendog

    bendog Well-Known Member

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    If you have comprehensive health insurance now, you already have competition. Look to see how much you actually pay out of pocket for an office visit or annual exam. It's a bit under $50 and $150 for me, after Blue Cross negotiates costs down with the doctors. I pay $500 a month out of pocket to also cover my wife and daughter.

    But when you figure out what the actual cost drivers of medical care are …. that $500 isn't so bad. The REAL expenses come in from serious accidents and diseases. And the "free market" is not a delivery system for that. You can't shop around when you are in a car wreck and have a brain injury that needs surgery NOW. No one seriously can say they'll "shop around" for that heart bypass to have that stint put in or valve replaced …. when they are either having a heart attack or on the verge.

    And the biggest cost driver for Medicaid is old people dying in nursing homes.
     
  13. bendog

    bendog Well-Known Member

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    Conversely I suppose we could have private insurance not cover wellness and office visits, and we could bargain the price which might actually reduce how much a visit costs. But then people would be giving up what coverage they have, and that's not politically popular.
     
  14. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Not being one what? A compassionate human being?
     
  15. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Read and you can stop being wrong
     
  16. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nah, a derelict. But you feel free to take care of them--just one more thing I needn't fret over.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  17. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    What's the study design?
     
  18. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Like Cuba?
     
  19. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    If you wish to promote the Cuban model you can, of course. I prefer that of advanced democracies, of which there are multiple examples that are effective, efficient, inclusive, and far less costly than the US where so much of every healthcare dollar is skimmed off by superfluous middlemen.
     
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  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the Confederates have never been happy they lost, but let's hope after Trump loses they crawl back into the darkness they came from
     
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  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    after the government pushed it's low fat diet recommendations, more people started getting metabolic diseases like diabetes, Arthritis, Alzheimers, ADHD, ect....

    the increased sugar consumption is the issue, it's in almost every product we buy now - it was added to replace the fat

    other countries adoption our Corporate diet are starting to see their health care costs rise too
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  22. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not sure I get the trump "republican" economic philosophy these days.

    If I understand correctly its all for rugged individualism when it comes to healthcare and social programs but rampant corporate socialism when it comes to subsidies and tax breaks. The IMF just released a study that found in 2017 that the US taxpayer spent $640 Billion on subsidies and tax breaks to the fossil fuel industry. That's more than the US military budget. WTF is that all about?

    Anyway, in any comparison of costs for healthcare delivery amongst the wealthy democratic world and its pretty clear how many more cost drivers there are in the US than in other nations. Many more hands than necessary in the pie and way too many exhorbitant mark ups which one would expect with such poor "market forces" cost controls in place.
     
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  23. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Like Canada where long wait times have Canadian citizenship coming to use our hospitals?
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and America where American citizens go to other Countries for some procedures
     
  25. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Fair point and Americans go to third world countries for bargain basement prices on many things including false teeth. Health care tourism is a real thing.
     

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