Why do debates about religion get so negative?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Defender of Freedom, Dec 5, 2014.

  1. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Actually what you have is wishful thinking, and you've simply given yourself permission to believe in fairy tales in an attempt to satiate this childlike desire for things (and in particular, your own tiny mortal existence) to be other than they are.

    No one has any idea how it all started - not you, not athiests, and certainly not a bunch of bronze age goat herders. The trick to staying honest is accepting that we don't know and moving on. Preferably to something less self-indulgent than religion.
     
  2. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I will try to say this simply enough that you understand it. A refusal to 'condemn' any behavior including the above, in a thread of yours, is never ever immoral because you are not entitled to a condemnation. You are not entitled to an answer. To put it another way ( there really can't be too many ways to put this for you) I for one can bring myself to condemn the bashing of babies. I just didn't want do it to suit your purposes in your thread. There may be hundred different perfectly legitimate reasons not to reply to your question besides a love of deity you don't share, or a love of the dashing of babies. Here are three others, none of them suggest the abridgement of a moral duty to condemn for you. Maybe you are perceived as disrespectful creep unworthy of an answer. Maybe your question is deemed silly and moot considering the reader does not see a lot of babies being bashed on rocks. Maybe the reader just got bored and left the question unanswered. It is a lot more inexcusable for you to presume why the question was not answered and post your guess, than it was for them not to answer it.
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, but that means a separation of religion from government, and many do not want that.... many want a Christian nation as one of their political goals

    when one tries to outlaw things based on religious beliefs.... or force their religious beliefs on people via gov.... people will be upset

    some Christians think removing God from the pledge or celebrating a secular Christmas is an attack on their beliefs, it's not, just means not everyone believes as they do, and the gov should remain neutral

    many of my family\friends are Christians, some of the best you would ever meet, I have no issues with good Christians, Muslims, Jews, ect... just don't try to force their beliefs (God or No God) on others through the government and were all good

    .
     
  4. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I understand how you would object to having your answers DIRECTED and Freedom Seeker might have handled debating such an issue in another way with you but Freedom Seeker has a valid point.

    That point being that he and others find it hard to see how anyone of Faith and ESPECIALLY those who are able to quote the Bible, Koran or Torah for use as evidence to back their comments or debate....well it's hard for many people to see what possible position of Higher Moral Ground anyone claiming to have such Faith could possibly have?

    When one takes the time to STUDY just how such Religious Books were created and written....then a person can plainly see and understand that such ancient written text which eventually was placed into Books in a VERY ARBITRARY MANNER....and this makes it difficult for a person like me who is educated to such things to see exactly WHERE is the Morality.

    AboveAlpha

    - - - Updated - - -

    The BRILLIANCE of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is shown in that not only do Citizens of the United States have FREEDOM OF RELIGION....they also have FREEDOM FROM RELIGION.

    AboveAlpha
     
  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    There's a suggestion that the celestial objects make a large scale structure
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe#Large-scale_structure

    http://cosmicweb.uchicago.edu/filaments.html

    We could be part of a living organism or maybe just a clump of cosmic dirt. I think it should be possible to analyze the visible universe to determine if the galaxies compose some kind of chemical compound. They claim that some celestial objects that are separated by billions of light years are orientated along the same axis.

    Anyway, Jesus said that a third of all of those stars will fall to the Earth (Revelation 12:4, Revelation 9:1, Matthew 24:29). So maybe those stars are just tiny lights and not as large as we think they are.
     
  6. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    LOL!!!

    No...the stars are very large indeed...some Supergiant Stars are as large in Diameter as our Solar System.

    Although I could post about how we already KNOW that Humans are NOT the only Intelligent Space Faring Race in the Universe.....I will instead just say this.....

    Given that life exists on Earth....and given the number of Stars existing in the Galaxy...and given the number of Planets existing in the Galaxy....then the amount of Stars and Planets existing in the Universe.....IT IS A STATISTICAL IMPOSSIBILITY.....for Life to only exist on Earth.

    AboveAlpha
     
  7. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Because prayer doesn't change God, prayer changes me.
     
  8. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I don't see anything wrong with a person Praying and if praying makes a person feel better and perhaps gives them hope then what's the harm in that?

    The only time issues crop up is when Highly Religious People attempt to force their practices upon other people.

    Example....when in several Midwestern States....Teachers started leading students in Christian Prayers not caring about how other students of different beliefs might feel.

    AboveAlpha
     
  9. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    But if the stars are as large are some people claim they are, how will a third of the stars in the universe fit on Earth? They seem so tiny in the night sky. I think someone is pulling a joke.

    I'm sure that countless planets support life forms. The problem is that the planets that do have life are so far from us that it simply doesn't matter. The distance/time line factor is just too great to overcome. There's also the problems of planetary gravity and atmospheres. Life has existed on Earth for billions of years. But it's doubtful if we could have survived on Earth 200 million years ago because the atmosphere was different.

    Space travel is completely different than sailing around the Earth's oceans in a wooden boat. You have to know exactly where you are going and what you will find once you get there. There's no AAA service in space.

    The nearest star other than the Sun is Proxima Centauri at 4.243 light years distance. The fastest object we have sent into space has been Voyager 1 and it has only traveled 1/600th of a light year in 30 years at 1/18,000 the speed of light. At that rate it will take it 80,000 years to reach Proxima Centauri.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel
    If it was going at 4.5% the speed of light it would take 100 years. How much has society changed in the past 100 years? Even if you had a vehicle that could do 1,000 times the speed of light it would take about 100 years to go to the other side of the galaxy and you couldn't do it in a straight line because of all of the junk in the way. Now imagine how reliable and durable such a vehicle would have to be for such a journey, even one way.

    Space aliens make for entertaining movies. Not going to happen.
     
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Prayer made some characters in the holy books meaner.
     
  11. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    The idea is to to use Propulsion systems such as Rockets or Ion Drives or Nuclear Engines.

    The way to travels space is by first being able to understand the UFT....the Unified Field Theory.

    When most of us were in school they asked us..."What is the shortest distance between two points?"

    The answer to this question we were told was..."A Straight Line."

    That is incorrect.

    The answer is....ZERO DISTANCE.

    If we could understand and develop a UFT....Unified Field Theory then we would be able to generate enormous amounts of Energy and then this energy would RPRESENT MASS....as all Matter is simply comprised of Energy and through the UFT we could transform matter to energy and back to matter if needed.

    Using a Matter/Antimatter Reaction using a very specific Isotopse of Element 115....we could generate a Matter/Antimatter Energy Cascade Reaction in all Divergent Universal States thus all that Energy generated would represent Mass...TO FOLD SPACE-TIME....thus traveling without moving.

    AboveAlpha
     
  12. hudson1955

    hudson1955 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Differences in religious choice or lack of it, should be a personal thing. After thousands of years of conflict and wars over religion, we haven't learned to stop trying to force religious beliefs on others or to realize that everyone has the right to their own belief on the subject.

    Christians vs. Catholics in Ireland and thousands of years of wars in the Middle East. Clearly, anyone claiming to believe in a God and yet killing others that believe differently is simply wrong.

    Arguing is one thing, killing is much different. ISIS and the like are not godly people IMO. They are hateful people that don't respect the rights of others.

    I have attended virtually every denomination of Christian churches, the underlying principles are the same. I can even understand why the Jewish religion exists and the views of Jewish people. I simply cannot understand or condone any religion that believes it is o.k. to kill others simply because they are of a different faith.

    And, atheists have a right to be atheists regardless if you believe differently. My husband is a doctor and often people of science profess to be atheists. They are normally realists that are schooled in basing things on proven, tangible fact and often have trouble with idea of simple faith, believing something they can't prove.

    The question I have always had trouble dealing with is, how do you picture "nothing"? How was God created? How could the universe be created from nothing? These are questions that we will never be able to answer in our life time or our grandchildrens lifetime.

    Science has yet to answer these questions. Darwin didn't answer the question of how the first organism came to being and while our Solar System is just one of many, how was the first star, planet, solar system created if there was nothing. Get what I am saying? So you either believe or continue to question and seek factual/provable answers.
     
  13. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    You have to remember that all Religions at one time or another....and Christianity certainly exists within this group...has attempted to force by way of WAR OR TORTURE...their religious beliefs upon others.

    You have to look at this over thousands of years...all are guilty.

    AboveAlpha
     
  14. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    You believe in nothing, therefore you have no purpose, therefore your existence is useless.
     
  15. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    This isn't Dune and there's no "spice" that will fold space.

    You still have to know where you're going and what you will find once you get there. If you were an observer in deep space you might be able to detect Neptune based upon its effect on the Kuiper Belt. However, if you were foolish enough to make the trip to Neptune across interstellar space you would be very disappointed.
     
  16. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    No...there is no SPICE....but if enough Energy can be generated it can represent Mass to warp or fold space-time...and we know this as a fact as this is what Gravity Wells do....they Warp or Fold Space-Time.

    AboveAlpha
     
  17. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    Judgment is God's realm. People have a tendency to confuse advice with judgment. People that demonize people are wrong. If gay people want to get married it's not for me to judge, but that's obviously contradicts the literal Biblical interpretation of marriage. Therefore I personally wouldn't recognize their marriage the same as my own. I believe the government muddies those waters moreso than the church. Gay people should be able to suffer the same marriage penalties as the rest of us, as well as the same benefits.
     
  18. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Well your point was not his point. I have a hard time understanding why anyone who works so hard to goad people of faith into exchanges designed to undermine and belittle their faith, would have any interest in bringing phrases like 'higher moral ground' into the discussion.

    On to your points. I agree there is no inherently higher moral ground to any position because it is faith based or consistent with holy writitings. It is always silly for people of faith to quote religious
    texts to non-believers for virtually any purpose beyond its value as a succinct clever aphorism of moral teaching, no different from a pithy quote from Shakespeare or Voltaire because that is pretty much all the value a non-believer will ever get from it. That's why it is always best for people of faith to be able to travel down roads of secular reason as well, and save the Bible's spiritual side for spiritual discussions amongst themselves. when you are trying to make a point, you ought to make it in a way that will be most persuasive to your audience.

    Normally, we don't know what that is, or plan and prepare our arguments with that much care. Folks tend to throw 'the kitchen sink' into their persuasion, and those who are religious do the same. If they are arguing not to steal the money, or to quit that job, or in favor of moving to Ireland, or even to rationalize their philandering cheating conduct, they throw both secular and religious based arguments into the mix. This isn't a big problem for me. I just ignore the religious based argument or dismiss the bible quote by saying I am not a believer and it is not relevant and move on to the pertinent ones. My goal is to stay on topic. People of faith may have very high moral ground for their views and positions. Whether they can or choose to express it in secular terms is a matter of habit and preference.
     
  19. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    I kinda feel the same way when Highly Unreligious People try to force their beliefs on me, but that doesn't count because?
     
  20. Micketto

    Micketto New Member Past Donor

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    One side constantly on the attack, with their endless jerkfest attempts to convince themselves, as a group, that there is no God...
    The other side (the few that even post), working too hard to explain how the Bible doesn't say the things the detractors claim it does.

    I have no idea why a forum full of threads with subjects like "Jesus raped his mom and gave birth to himself", and "rape is OK according to the Bible" take negative turns....

    Who knows.
     
  21. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a Christian, so that's one reason why I do that.
     
  22. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    These threads turn negative because people are now finally starting to really call out those who are so immoral that they give their OWN IMPRESSIONABLE CHILDREN a book, say it's the best book of all time and say it's from "god" even, and that book says to KILL them if they turn out like that same god made them (gay.) They don't like being called out, they don't like thinking.....instead, they prefer to believe that a book that actually thinks that unicorns are real is not just a fairy tale.
     
  23. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    Nope. They turn negative because heathens like yourself don't understand the value of civility.
     
  24. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Dude, this isn't rocket surgery.
     
  25. Micketto

    Micketto New Member Past Donor

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    The irony in your nonstop childish, negative, ranting is hilarious.


    Don't you have a thread titled "God says police can kill then rape blacks" to create.... in which you pretend to want a serious discussion?
     

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